Re: Hydrogen boost will work!

 On Aug 13, 6:19 am, leonard-abb...@webtv.net (Leonard Abbott) wrote:

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Lets assume we get 30 MPG at 60 MPH... thats 2 GPH or about 2 cc per
sec the electrolyzer needs to put out. Lets say its using 12V and
60A... about 1 HP.... lets assume that the alternator is about 50%
efficient so its pulling on the belt about 2 HP worth. I claim that it
takes about 40HP to cruise down the road at 60 MPH, sp that 2HP drain
is about a 5% extra load on the engine, so you are right so far... you
are ahead of the game it looks like.

  Crap. I had it all worked out on the back of an envelope showing 10%
of 2 GPH. Then I used google to convert 2 GPH to cc per sec and forget
to take 10% of it, So that makes this unbelievable scenario 10 times
better. I really wanted to show it was worse, not better.

 b4439afd7f56@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:


A lot of people have been coming into the garage asking about this tech.  
It seems to me that it could work.  Adding even a little hydrogen to the
air intake could make for a more efficient burn.  I'd be like adding
propane (like they do for diesels) or even NOX -- just not very much.

Now i'm wondering how the newer cars computers would deal with having a
different mix, or if would even matter.

 
| b4439afd7f56@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
|
| > Crap. I had it all worked out on the back of an envelope showing 10%
| > of 2 GPH. Then I used google to convert 2 GPH to cc per sec and forget
| > to take 10% of it, So that makes this unbelievable scenario 10 times
| > better. I really wanted to show it was worse, not better.
| >
|
| A lot of people have been coming into the garage asking about this tech.
| It seems to me that it could work.  Adding even a little hydrogen to the
| air intake could make for a more efficient burn.  I'd be like adding
| propane (like they do for diesels) or even NOX -- just not very much.
|
| Now i'm wondering how the newer cars computers would deal with having a
| different mix, or if would even matter.

How to Totally Trash an Onboard
Vehicle Hydrogen Electrolysizer
Don Lancaster
Synergetics, Box 809, Thatcher, AZ 85552
copyright c2008 pub 7/08 as GuruGram #93
http://www.tinaja.com
don@tinaja.com
(928) 428-4073

Here, revealed in print for the very first time, are many of the super
secret insider
techniques to absolutely and totally ruin the performance of an onboard auto
or
truck hydrogen electrolysis generator.

Please note that while any one of these by themselves is clearly a fatal
flaw, using
them in combination is strongly recommended to be absolutely sure your
device
ends up utterly and truly worthless…

1. Completely ignore the inescapable fact that increasing the electrical
load on an alternator disproportionately increases its mechanical
input load on the engine.

2. Completely ignore the inescapable fact that the primary product of an
onboard electrolysizer is useless low grade heat. Which can create a
DYNAMIC BRAKE that is the equivalent of leaving your emergency brake
partially set at all times.

3. Use an ordinary fan belt whose maximum additional mechanical load
capability is a few hundred watts at most.

4. Use an ordinary alternator whose efficiency will be lucky to approach
45 percent near full loading.

5. Leave off the crucial computer controlled switchmode voltage to current
converter so that most of the electrical energy gets burned up in the
alternator source rather than being sent to its electrolysis load.

6. Make the electrolysizer way too small so it has to operate in its lossy
exothermic region, rather than being thermoneutral or endothermic.

7. Be sure to use stainless steel electrodes with their low energy
passivated
surfaces and their hydrogen overvoltage of iron instead of platinum.

8. Always make "not even wrong" pulse measurements by failing to use true
rms techniques of acceptable crest factors.
—93.1—

9. Studiously avoid any and all labwork. Especially any that is objectively
and competently done with sophisticated enough instruments.

1 0. Ignore the "Carnot Squared" ludicrosity of sending the SAME energy
through a highly inefficient heat engine TWICE.

1 1. Ignore the fact that cascading system losses will make the stored
hydrogen energy a joke compared to the input. Perhaps a recoverable
70 watts mechanical energy for every 1000 watts of mechanical input.

1 2. Fail to provide the 31.25 liters per minute required for the 5%
hydrogen
injection needed at 50 horsepower.

1 3. Charge more than the $13 total per percent mpg improvement that
is demanded for a reasonable return on your investment.

1 4. Ignore the EPA law that makes it a felony to tamper with any emission
control device. Such as is inevitable with hydrogen injection.
Some expansion on the math involved in (12) and (13). A 5% hydrogen
injection
is the basis of legitimate published papers on potential ICE improvements.
Taking
50 horsepower as a normal running load on a vehicle means that 2.5
horsepower
of hydrogen energy will be needed for a 5% injection. Because the engine
will
end up less than 33 percent efficient, the stored hydrogen energy would have
to
approach something like a deliverable 7.5 horsepower, or 5625 watts.
5625 watts for an hour would be 5625 watthours. The stored hydrogen energy
is
around 3 watthours per STP liter, so 1875 liters per hour would be required.
Or
31.25 liters per minute.
As to amortiztaion, Assume you have a 20 MPG vehicle you drive 10,000 miles
per year with gas at $4 per gallon. You use 500 gallons per year worth
$2000. A
one percent improvement would reduce your annual costs by $20.

At $20 per percent, the system is clearly pointless because you would just
break
even. A more realistic installation price should be about $5 per percent per
year.
Or 41 cents per month. Assuming a three year life and 10 percent financing,
an
investment $12.79 would consume about 41 cents per month.
Thus $13 per percent improvement total cost ( including installation and
maint ) is
the absolute maximum you should ever consider paying for such a device.

For More Help

Additional tutorials are found here, here, Here, and here. With ongoing
discussions here. And a new energy efficiency breakthrough can be found
here.
As always, Custom Consulting is available on a cash and carry or contract
basis.
As are seminars and workshops. For details, you can email don@tinaja.com. Or
call (928) 428-4073.
—93.2—

 
 Please explain this one for me? Is this just a voltage down converter, a
specific
waveform  generator or a impedance matching circuit?
 I'm a non believer but I seem to run into people building these hydrogen
generators and they are zealots.
                      Mike