Posted by Eeyore on January 9, 2009, 2:27 am
patrick.cusick.dailyplanetmedia@gmail.com wrote:
> The problem of transportation pollution isn't the stupid vehicle it's
> the carbon combustion engines that turn the wheels of cars and trucks.
Well.... the ones in ships can manage ~ 70% efficiency with co-gen. Power
plants from MAN Diesel can manage 95%.
http://www.mandiesel.com/category_000082.html
Graham
Posted by Eeyore on January 9, 2009, 5:58 am
Mauried wrote:
> patrick.cusick.dailyplanetmedia@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >There can be no underestimating the fact that the combustion motorcar
> >was the great industrial symbol of the 20th century. However, the car
> >that will define a more Earth-caring 21st century will be more than
> >just fuel efficient it will have the capacity for regenerative
> >breaking. Instead of disposing energy from breaking as heat, the
> >energy will be stored and used again.
> Carbon combustion engines also turn the wheels of the aviation
> industry and the shipping industry, and most of the worlds mining
> industry and farming industry, not to mention all land transport
> including trucking and railroads,and most of all the worlds
> military forces.
> What are you going to replace all these industries with.
> Electric airplanes maybe?
Believe or not, some people are so detached from reality that I did
recently see a post claiming both Boeing and Airbus would indeed have
electric airliners within 10 years. <sigh>
Whatever happened to education in the sciences - never mind the other
stuff ?
Graham
Posted by Frank on January 9, 2009, 7:29 am
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Mauried wrote:
>
>> patrick.cusick.dailyplanetmedia@gmail.com wrote:
>>> There can be no underestimating the fact that the combustion motorcar
>>> was the great industrial symbol of the 20th century. However, the car
>>> that will define a more Earth-caring 21st century will be more than
>>> just fuel efficient it will have the capacity for regenerative
>>> breaking. Instead of disposing energy from breaking as heat, the
>>> energy will be stored and used again.
>> Carbon combustion engines also turn the wheels of the aviation
>> industry and the shipping industry, and most of the worlds mining
>> industry and farming industry, not to mention all land transport
>> including trucking and railroads,and most of all the worlds
>> military forces.
>> What are you going to replace all these industries with.
>> Electric airplanes maybe?
>
> Believe or not, some people are so detached from reality that I did
> recently see a post claiming both Boeing and Airbus would indeed have
> electric airliners within 10 years. <sigh>
>
> Whatever happened to education in the sciences - never mind the other
> stuff ?
>
> Graham
>
>
One of my big gripes too. Even in the US, we are told that about 20% of
the adult population is functionally illiterate. Now just imagine what
the technical illiterate percentage is. Since you can function in
society without fundamental knowledge of physics and chemistry, the rate
must be much higher. Worst among them, particularly politicians, are
those that take advantage of the lack of technical knowledge to their
own ends.
Frank
Posted by Larry Caldwell on January 11, 2009, 7:32 pm
frankperiodlogullo@comcast.net (Frank) says...
> One of my big gripes too. Even in the US, we are told that about 20% of
> the adult population is functionally illiterate. Now just imagine what
> the technical illiterate percentage is. Since you can function in
> society without fundamental knowledge of physics and chemistry, the rate
> must be much higher. Worst among them, particularly politicians, are
> those that take advantage of the lack of technical knowledge to their
> own ends.
Even worse than the literacy problem is the innumeracy problem. An
estimated 50% of the population is functionally innumerate, unable to do
simple arithmetic.
--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.
Posted by daestrom on January 9, 2009, 5:37 pm
Eeyore wrote:
> patrick.cusick.dailyplanetmedia@gmail.com wrote:
>> The problem of transportation pollution isn't the stupid vehicle it's
>> the carbon combustion engines that turn the wheels of cars and
>> trucks.
> Well.... the ones in ships can manage ~ 70% efficiency with co-gen.
> Power plants from MAN Diesel can manage 95%.
> http://www.mandiesel.com/category_000082.html
I looked through the marine portion of this web site and the best I could
find was some engines (with turbo-charging) that get about 165 g/kWh. That
only works out to about 51%.
http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=hhdhp#/page28/
Combined cycle with exhaust gas boiler and their 'TCS' system seems to peak
out around 57%
http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=gfhqw#/page10/
Co-gen using the rejected heat for some other purpose isn't too useful for
transportation as there is little that can use that much heat. The 95%
number mentioned in your link is for thermal utilization in *stationary*
power plants. Don't know too many transportation vehicles that need
anywhere near that much heating.
Still, 51-57% is an impressive efficiency. Probably why a lot of modern
ships are being built with this sort of propulsion plant. Now, as far as
over-land transportation???
daestrom
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> the carbon combustion engines that turn the wheels of cars and trucks.