Posted by Bill Carter on March 27, 2009, 4:34 am
You wrote:
>
>> You wrote:
>>>
>>>> rpautrey2 wrote:
>>>>> Recharging the Grid with Electric Cars
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A utility in Delaware has opened the door to vehicle-to-grid
>>>>> technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wednesday, January 21, 2009
>>>>> By Kevin Bullis
>>>>>
>>>>> A utility in Delaware has taken a step toward a future in which
>>>>> electric cars store renewable energy to help make its use more
>>>>> widespread. The city of Newark has approved a system called
>>>>> vehicle-to- grid (V2G), in which the battery pack in a car serves as
>>>>> a place to temporarily store energy from the power grid.
>>>>>
>>>> Is the utility going to pay for using up the battery life?
>>> Did you catch our Prez's statement on 60 minutes last sunday where he
>>> stated that "Electric Cars would be used to "Supply" power to the Grid?
>>> I heard that and thought, "does this Yahoo even understand the
>>> technology that he talks about?" This is NOT the stupidest Idea I have
>>> ever heard, but it RANKS right up there with the worst of them. Do these
>>> utilities REALLY Think they are going to use parked Electric CARS, to
>>> keep their Grid Stable? If they do, then they are MOrooons... (Bug Bunny
>>> Definition) the energy has to come from SOMEWHERE, and Electric Cars are
>>> a USER of Energy not a Source of Energy. The idea that you drive home
>>> and park your ECar, Plug it in, expecting it to recharge overnight. Then
>>> your neighbor decides to heat his swimming pool that night, with
>>> electricity, but your Utility is running short, so your ECar is drained
>>> to heat the neighbors pool, and when you go out the next morning it has
>>> less Juice than when you parked it, and the Utility paid you $.10 for
>>> the privilage of heating the neighbors pool...... What IDIOT thought up
>>> this idea.... Must have got his Degree from The Dufus's R Us School of
>>> Engineering........
>> Yawn, dumb rant. They wouldn't drain the battery.
>
> Say's Who? You don't know that...... if they didn't want the power stored
> in the battery what would be the point of this "NEW System"? You plug in
That's real easy to figure out if you just think about it for a
minute. Obviously you didn't do that. Millions of cars attached
to the grid represents a significant energy repository. Perhaps
they would drain a quarter of that power at night when the solar
generators aren't running leaving you plenty to get to work. Or
YOU decide how much power you are willing to allocate and the larger
the percentage of risk you take the more they pay you.
> your 50% charged car, and expect it to be 100% by morning, and the
> utility needs your power so they take 50% of your Batteries power. That,
> Sonny, leaves you with a 25% charge, when you expected a 100% charge....
> to drive to work the next morning... I can see it now, "Boss I am late
> cause the Power Company, sucked my eCar battery down to 25% last night,
> and I didn't have enough Juice to get to work this morning, on-time....
> Sounds about right, doesn't it......
Sounds like you just don't want it to work. Several kinds of batteries
charge quickly, most likely you will have 100% within an hour and you
tell them they can't take more than 25%.
Posted by Eeyore on March 26, 2009, 10:18 pm
harry wrote:
> Well there could be ways round the above problems. The first is
> that the utility company would have to subsidise the battery.
And if that was economic they'd be doing it already without modifying EVs to
provide the batteries.
You do realise battery life is affected by the number of cycles of use and the
depth of discharge on each cycle I hope. All of which will be made worse by such
a
scheme.
Graham
Posted by Eeyore on March 27, 2009, 7:57 pm
Bill Carter wrote:
> Sounds like you just don't want it to work. Several kinds of batteries
> charge quickly, most likely you will have 100% within an hour and you
> tell them they can't take more than 25%.
The life of ALL batteries is affected by numbers of cycles of use and the depth
of discharge ( using most of their capacity makes their life shorter ).
Any scheme using EV batteries to form an 'energy repository' will simply degrade
the lifetime and ability to hold charge of those VERY expensive batteries. The
very idea is daft from the beginning since it's difficult enough as it is to get
enough capacity from an EV battery. Forget it. It won't happen.
Graham
Posted by Bill Carter on March 28, 2009, 11:21 pm
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Bill Carter wrote:
>
>> Sounds like you just don't want it to work. Several kinds of batteries
>> charge quickly, most likely you will have 100% within an hour and you
>> tell them they can't take more than 25%.
>
> The life of ALL batteries is affected by numbers of cycles of use and the depth
> of discharge ( using most of their capacity makes their life shorter ).
That's why you don't use most of their capacity.
> Any scheme using EV batteries to form an 'energy repository' will simply
degrade
> the lifetime and ability to hold charge of those VERY expensive batteries. The
> very idea is daft from the beginning since it's difficult enough as it is to
get
> enough capacity from an EV battery. Forget it. It won't happen.
All technologies are daft from the beginning, then later it makes all the
sense in the world. Battery technology is following a well-tread development
curve. I don't advocate that batteries currently in use are suitable for
large-scale energy storage and retrieval but I think it will be feasible
within 5 years.
Posted by Eeyore on March 28, 2009, 10:22 pm
Bill Carter wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Bill Carter wrote:
> >
> >> Sounds like you just don't want it to work. Several kinds of batteries
> >> charge quickly, most likely you will have 100% within an hour and you
> >> tell them they can't take more than 25%.
> >
> > The life of ALL batteries is affected by numbers of cycles of use and the
depth
> > of discharge ( using most of their capacity makes their life shorter ).
> That's why you don't use most of their capacity.
Which means extra expense.
> > Any scheme using EV batteries to form an 'energy repository' will simply
degrade
> > the lifetime and ability to hold charge of those VERY expensive batteries.
The
> > very idea is daft from the beginning since it's difficult enough as it is to
get
> > enough capacity from an EV battery. Forget it. It won't happen.
> All technologies are daft from the beginning, then later it makes all the
> sense in the world.
NO. Some are clearly great from the beginning ( such as the jet engine ) and
others
are non-starters. You obviously have no experience of this area.
> Battery technology is following a well-tread development
> curve.
No it isn't. Today's lead-acid battery is little different from one made 100
years
ago.
> I don't advocate that batteries currently in use are suitable for
> large-scale energy storage and retrieval but I think it will be feasible
> within 5 years.
Where did you pull 5 years out of your backside and do tell us what technology is
going to do it.
Graham
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>> You wrote:
>>>
>>>> rpautrey2 wrote:
>>>>> Recharging the Grid with Electric Cars
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A utility in Delaware has opened the door to vehicle-to-grid
>>>>> technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wednesday, January 21, 2009
>>>>> By Kevin Bullis
>>>>>
>>>>> A utility in Delaware has taken a step toward a future in which
>>>>> electric cars store renewable energy to help make its use more
>>>>> widespread. The city of Newark has approved a system called
>>>>> vehicle-to- grid (V2G), in which the battery pack in a car serves as
>>>>> a place to temporarily store energy from the power grid.
>>>>>
>>>> Is the utility going to pay for using up the battery life?
>>> Did you catch our Prez's statement on 60 minutes last sunday where he
>>> stated that "Electric Cars would be used to "Supply" power to the Grid?
>>> I heard that and thought, "does this Yahoo even understand the
>>> technology that he talks about?" This is NOT the stupidest Idea I have
>>> ever heard, but it RANKS right up there with the worst of them. Do these
>>> utilities REALLY Think they are going to use parked Electric CARS, to
>>> keep their Grid Stable? If they do, then they are MOrooons... (Bug Bunny
>>> Definition) the energy has to come from SOMEWHERE, and Electric Cars are
>>> a USER of Energy not a Source of Energy. The idea that you drive home
>>> and park your ECar, Plug it in, expecting it to recharge overnight. Then
>>> your neighbor decides to heat his swimming pool that night, with
>>> electricity, but your Utility is running short, so your ECar is drained
>>> to heat the neighbors pool, and when you go out the next morning it has
>>> less Juice than when you parked it, and the Utility paid you $.10 for
>>> the privilage of heating the neighbors pool...... What IDIOT thought up
>>> this idea.... Must have got his Degree from The Dufus's R Us School of
>>> Engineering........
>> Yawn, dumb rant. They wouldn't drain the battery.
>
> Say's Who? You don't know that...... if they didn't want the power stored
> in the battery what would be the point of this "NEW System"? You plug in