Posted by Eeyore on March 27, 2009, 8:01 pm
Bill Carter wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Mauried wrote:
> >>> rpautrey2 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Recharging the Grid with Electric Cars
> >>> What a STUPID idea. How to wear out the EV's battery is what it should be
> >>> called.
> >> Not only wearing the battery out, but every electric car would have to
> >> be fitted with a grid tie inverter to allow the power to be fed back
> >> into the grid.
> >> Who would pay for those.
> >> Also, how would the power company make it known to the car owners
> >> that they needed power at a particular time.
> >> Whats in it for the car owners.
> >> EV car batteries are the most expensive components of an electric car.
> >> The last thing you want to be doing is charging and discharging them
> >> unnecessarily.
> >
> > And on top of that most vehicles are not being used overnight when the grid
> > doesn't NEED the extra power !
> Duh! Then what's the problem? In the daytime you have solar generation.
Also absurdly expensive.
> Your wind power comes in at various times day and night.
Or not at all for days on end.
> Vehicle batteries soak up the extra generating capacity
What extra ?
> and discharge it as needed. This displaces coal backup generators and
> everyone's happy.
You're an unscientific simpleton. You probably write for a newspaper.
Graham
Posted by Bill Carter on March 28, 2009, 12:43 am
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Bill Carter wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>> Mauried wrote:
>>>>> rpautrey2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Recharging the Grid with Electric Cars
>>>>> What a STUPID idea. How to wear out the EV's battery is what it should be
>>>>> called.
>>>> Not only wearing the battery out, but every electric car would have to
>>>> be fitted with a grid tie inverter to allow the power to be fed back
>>>> into the grid.
>>>> Who would pay for those.
>>>> Also, how would the power company make it known to the car owners
>>>> that they needed power at a particular time.
>>>> Whats in it for the car owners.
>>>> EV car batteries are the most expensive components of an electric car.
>>>> The last thing you want to be doing is charging and discharging them
>>>> unnecessarily.
>>> And on top of that most vehicles are not being used overnight when the grid
>>> doesn't NEED the extra power !
>> Duh! Then what's the problem? In the daytime you have solar generation.
>
> Also absurdly expensive.
No it isn't.
>> Your wind power comes in at various times day and night.
>
> Or not at all for days on end.
Or you don't know what you're talking about. Wind power is very
abundant in specific locations and lousy elsewhere. It is merely
necessary site the turbines appropriately. See this resource map,
much of the western US is rated good-superb and some locations
in east as well.
http://windeis.anl.gov/guide/maps/map2.html
> You're an unscientific simpleton. You probably write for a newspaper.
Oh my poor tender feelings.
Posted by Eeyore on March 28, 2009, 6:01 pm
Bill Carter wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Bill Carter wrote:
> >> Duh! Then what's the problem? In the daytime you have solar generation.
> >
> > Also absurdly expensive.
> No it isn't.
Yes it is. Show me some worked figures. I've posted mine here before. From
memory,
solar electricity even in the most suitable areas of the USA costs > 50c / kWh
when
all proper accounting of costs is done. In more Northern latitudes it's around
$ /
kWh.
Do you even know what an insolation map is for example ?
Maybe one day someone WILL hit the jackpot and find a way of making cheap solar
cells but that still doesn't fix the problem of storing the electricity for use
when it's needed and that's a good proportion of the above costs.
Graham
Posted by Bill Carter on March 29, 2009, 2:44 am
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Bill Carter wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>> Bill Carter wrote:
>>>> Duh! Then what's the problem? In the daytime you have solar generation.
>>> Also absurdly expensive.
>> No it isn't.
>
> Yes it is. Show me some worked figures. I've posted mine here before. From
memory,
> solar electricity even in the most suitable areas of the USA costs > 50c / kWh
when
> all proper accounting of costs is done. In more Northern latitudes it's around
$ /
> kWh.
All proper accounting? I didn't see that post but I expect you will have
compared it against all proper accounting associated with all the other
energy sources including environmental damage associated with burning,
fuel mining, waste disposal, water usage, etc. Maybe you can find all
that and repost it.
> Do you even know what an insolation map is for example ?
I realize you think you are something special. Consider the possibility
that this may not actually be the case. We are going to have to invest
in transmission infrastructure that allows us to ship energy from the
places where it is most appropriately generated to the places where it
is needed.
> Maybe one day someone WILL hit the jackpot and find a way of making cheap solar
> cells but that still doesn't fix the problem of storing the electricity for use
> when it's needed and that's a good proportion of the above costs.
In one post you are bashing wind, in the next its solar. These are
complementary technologies, they are being developed, and we better
pray they will be some form of replacement for what we currently use.
Posted by Eeyore on April 3, 2009, 3:12 am
Bill Carter wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Bill Carter wrote:
> >> Eeyore wrote:
> >>> Bill Carter wrote:
> >>>> Duh! Then what's the problem? In the daytime you have solar generation.
> >>> Also absurdly expensive.
> >> No it isn't.
> >
> > Yes it is. Show me some worked figures. I've posted mine here before. From
memory,
> > solar electricity even in the most suitable areas of the USA costs > 50c /
kWh when
> > all proper accounting of costs is done. In more Northern latitudes it's
around $ /
> > kWh.
> All proper accounting? I didn't see that post but I expect you will have
> compared it against all proper accounting associated with all the other
> energy sources including environmental damage associated with burning,
> fuel mining, waste disposal, water usage, etc. Maybe you can find all
> that and repost it.
Does making PV cells not have an environmental cost too ?
> > Do you even know what an insolation map is for example ?
> I realize you think you are something special. Consider the possibility
> that this may not actually be the case. We are going to have to invest
> in transmission infrastructure that allows us to ship energy from the
> places where it is most appropriately generated to the places where it
> is needed.
Transmission = losses.
> > Maybe one day someone WILL hit the jackpot and find a way of making cheap
solar
> > cells but that still doesn't fix the problem of storing the electricity for
use
> > when it's needed and that's a good proportion of the above costs.
> In one post you are bashing wind, in the next its solar. These are
> complementary technologies, they are being developed, and we better
> pray they will be some form of replacement for what we currently use.
Nuclear WILL be the next step.
Graham
XML site map
> > Mauried wrote:
> >>> rpautrey2 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Recharging the Grid with Electric Cars
> >>> What a STUPID idea. How to wear out the EV's battery is what it should be
> >>> called.
> >> Not only wearing the battery out, but every electric car would have to
> >> be fitted with a grid tie inverter to allow the power to be fed back
> >> into the grid.
> >> Who would pay for those.
> >> Also, how would the power company make it known to the car owners
> >> that they needed power at a particular time.
> >> Whats in it for the car owners.
> >> EV car batteries are the most expensive components of an electric car.
> >> The last thing you want to be doing is charging and discharging them
> >> unnecessarily.
> >
> > And on top of that most vehicles are not being used overnight when the grid
> > doesn't NEED the extra power !
> Duh! Then what's the problem? In the daytime you have solar generation.