Posted by nospam on October 29, 2009, 4:33 pm
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> nospam@nevis.com wrote:
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>> What guarantee do you have that the seller will be in business next
>>> year, let alone 15 years from now?
>> And the sun could snuff out tomorrow, life is chancy. With your
>> viewpoint we'd all still be huddled around the fire afraid of
>> the dark. There are no 100% guarantees about anything but your own
>> mortality.
>
>
> Yawn. I built a 48 VDC powered KU band communications system for the
> International Space Station while working at Microdyne. Lockheed-Martin
> packaged it into one of the custom rack modules and supplied the
> modified remote control software to NASA. It was a modifed Microdyne
> '700 Series' design.
>
> Cheap and long life just don't go together on batteries. If someone
> actually did discover how to do it, they would own the market in a very
> short time.
>
> Huddle all you want, around your jury-rigged toys. As far as the
> fire, you might get that from you overloaded and under designed 12 volt
> wiring.
>
>
Don't tell grandma how to suck eggs. I built my first solar water heater
in 1971 (the unit is still functioning) and worked on the first R-2000
homes in North America back in 1973. We built a completely off grid
super insulated home in 1998/99 with Hydronic radiant floor heating,
solar hot water and PV.
Posted by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax on October 29, 2009, 5:54 pm
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>> nospam@nevis.com wrote:
>>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>>> nospam@nevis.com wrote:
>>>>>> TheM wrote:
>>>>>>>>> For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual
breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to be
confusing energy break even with economic break even. I a
>>>>>>>> perfect world they might be comparable, but I doubt if that is true in
the real world.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vaughn
>>>>>>> I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years
down the road,
>>>>>>> possibly decades. And fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net
energy surplus.
>>>>>>> And before we get to break even we might have new, much better
technology.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> M
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who knows, but for a $.98 a watt it's a good deal if you want to give
>>>>>> it a go. I know I could run my home office off a couple of panels
>>>>>> (laptop, printer etc.)Even having a couple would keep the lights on
>>>>>> in an emergency.
>>>>> If there is enough sun to power the lights, you don't need them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> After 4pm six months of the year, yes I do need lights.
>>>
>>> The solar panels are worthless for that use without expensive, short
>>> lived batteries.
>> Cheap deep cycle batteries with a 15 year guarantee are available
>
>
> What guarantee do you have that the seller will be in business next
> year, let alone 15 years from now?
The manufacturer is likely to be.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Posted by Josepi on October 29, 2009, 1:34 pm
Post the guarantee here so we can see what it says.
Let's see if we are allowed to actually discahrge the batteries and still
get our 1% back.
> Cheap deep cycle batteries with a 15 year guarantee are available
> --
> Dirk
> http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
> http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
> http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Posted by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax on October 29, 2009, 6:39 pm
Josepi wrote:
> Post the guarantee here so we can see what it says.
> Let's see if we are allowed to actually discahrge the batteries and still
> get our 1% back.
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=7
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Posted by TheM on October 28, 2009, 11:26 pm
> TheM wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
>>>>
>>>> Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual
breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
>>>>
>>> Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to be
confusing energy break even with economic break even. I
>>> a perfect world they might be comparable, but I doubt if that is true in the
real world.
>>>
>>> Vaughn
>>
>> I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down the
road,
>> possibly decades. And fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net
energy surplus.
>> And before we get to break even we might have new, much better technology.
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
> Who knows, but for a $.98 a watt it's a good deal if you want to give it a
go. I know I could run my home office off a couple of
> panels (laptop, printer etc.)Even having a couple would keep the lights on
> in an emergency.
Especially at night.... factor in batteries and invertors and its way more
than 1.98.
M
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>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>> What guarantee do you have that the seller will be in business next
>>> year, let alone 15 years from now?
>> And the sun could snuff out tomorrow, life is chancy. With your
>> viewpoint we'd all still be huddled around the fire afraid of
>> the dark. There are no 100% guarantees about anything but your own
>> mortality.
>
>
> Yawn. I built a 48 VDC powered KU band communications system for the
> International Space Station while working at Microdyne. Lockheed-Martin
> packaged it into one of the custom rack modules and supplied the
> modified remote control software to NASA. It was a modifed Microdyne
> '700 Series' design.
>
> Cheap and long life just don't go together on batteries. If someone
> actually did discover how to do it, they would own the market in a very
> short time.
>
> Huddle all you want, around your jury-rigged toys. As far as the
> fire, you might get that from you overloaded and under designed 12 volt
> wiring.
>
>