Posted by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax on October 29, 2009, 4:42 am
TheM wrote:
>> TheM wrote:
>>>>> For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual
breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
>>>>>
>>>> Huh? I usually agree with Don on these things, but here he seems to be
confusing energy break even with economic break even. I
>>>> a perfect world they might be comparable, but I doubt if that is true in
the real world.
>>>>
>>>> Vaughn
>>> I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down
the road,
>>> possibly decades. And fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net
energy surplus.
>>> And before we get to break even we might have new, much better technology.
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Who knows, but for a $.98 a watt it's a good deal if you want to give it a
go. I know I could run my home office off a couple of
>> panels (laptop, printer etc.)Even having a couple would keep the lights on
>> in an emergency.
>
> Especially at night.... factor in batteries and invertors and its way more
> than 1.98.
Depends on the size of the PV installation.
Above 1kW and it doesn't add that much cost % wise
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Posted by vaughn on October 28, 2009, 12:49 pm
> I think what he wants to say is that energy break even is many years down
> the road,
> possibly decades.
Yes, but economic break even is also an important concept. For example; PV
economic break even will come far sooner for the off-grid person who is
presently converting gasoline to kilowatt-hours than it would for someone
contemplating a grid-tie syestem in an area with cheap electricity.
> And fixing and maintaining it might kill the small net energy surplus.
Again, maintenance is mostly an economic issue, it has less to do with net
energy. That said, I agree that maintenance is an important and often
overlooked factor.
> And before we get to break even we might have new, much better technology.
Yes, but demand, and the competition that demand generates, is a main
driver for improving technology. If we just fold our arms and wait for
technology to improve in the absence of demand, technology improvement is
unlikely to ever happen.
Vaughn
Posted by Josepi on October 29, 2009, 1:38 pm
Somebody has to take one "for the team"
> Yes, but demand, and the competition that demand generates, is a main
> driver for improving technology. If we just fold our arms and wait for
> technology to improve in the absence of demand, technology improvement is
> unlikely to ever happen.
> Vaughn
>
Posted by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax on October 28, 2009, 1:27 am
Don Lancaster wrote:
> EHWollmann wrote:
>>> Wasn't $ a watt it was $.98 but here it is.
>>>
>>>> Pull in your spam antennas. I have no connection to this company
>>>> except I
>>>> bought an EU-2000 from them once, and I may buy a new PV panel from
>>>> them
>>>> tomorrow if those prices are real. At that price, they have the
>>>> SUN-130 and
>>>> SUN-150. The minimum number of panels they will ship is two. I hope to
>>>> drive down there tomorrow and pick up one.
>>>>
>>>> http://sunelec.com/
>>>> http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id57
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Two years ago we were talking about a silicon & carbon shortage and
>>>> impossibly growing PV prices. Is the PV industry facing over
>>>> production
>>>> now? How quickly things change.
>>>>
>>>> Vaughn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Don Thompson
>>>
>>> Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
>>> and that makes me an expert. "
>>>
>>> There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
>>> ~Goethe
>>>
>>> It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
>>> it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
>>> ~Mark Twain
>>>
>>>
>>>> A few week ago someone posted a link to a supplier in Florida who
>>>> had some
>>>> solar panals available at $.00/watt.
>>>>
>>>> Can you repost the link, I can't seem to find it.
>>
>> Be careful, when you deal with American dumbasses, everything they
>> made or recommended is over-rated or exaggerated. For example, DELCO
>> REMY' 140A alternator is really a 80-90-amp alternator, look at its
>> copper wire thickness(0.08" thick same a Bosch 80amp 0.08" thick) and
>> don't believe what the label says. Also their new Chevy Volt 200mpg
>> is a fake hybrid, what it is a 30-40miles per charge mileage, not per
>> tank. The dumbasses in these forums are so proud of their hyped
>> products, and they complained so much about the Chinese products.
>> What a shame...
>>
>>
>
>
> A dollar a watt solar panels would be totally useless, since they would
> simply be "paint it green" transfer payments of existing hydrocarbon or
> nuclear energy.
>
> And still remain asoline destroying net energy sinks that are in no
> manner green, renewable, nor sustainable.
>
> It makes no sense at all to sell a dime's worth of conventional
> electricity and then use that dime to buy some mythical "renewable" energy.
>
> For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
>
> Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual
> breakeven, owing to all the previously lost energy.
>
> http://www.tinaja.com/glib/pvlect2.pdf
Over here we pay around 15c per kWhr for mains electricity.
Do the sums.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Posted by vaughn on October 26, 2009, 8:16 pm
>A few week ago someone posted a link to a supplier in Florida who had some
> solar panals available at $.00/watt.
> Can you repost the link, I can't seem to find it.
Sorry, but your memory seems to have divided the price by a factor of 2.
They are actually $.98/Watt. Mine is doing a great job for me.
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id $
Vaughn
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>>>>> For net energy, a quarter per peak pv watt is needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even then, it would be many years after a quarter per watt for actual