Hybrid Car – More Fun with Less Gas

Some new idea on energy project as a hobby - Page 4

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Posted by New_idea on October 12, 2009, 2:13 am

And the power that produces your bogus gas comes from your Gasoline.  It
isn't free.  You really believe your battery has endless power by itself?

In my first post, i already said that “use wind turbine to generate
electricity and than use the electricity to electrolysis water to get
hydrogen and than pump/compress the hydrogen into the gas tank.”
That is how you can blend hydrogen with CNG to run our car.
You want to distort my original idea, i can't do anything.

There is a project by Idaho National Laboratory under U.S Department of
Energy that do experiment of running vehicle with “Hydrogen+Natural gas

Posted by Charlie E. on October 12, 2009, 8:13 pm

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:13:33 +0800, "New_idea"

Ok, lets take a look at this.

First, you have a $0K wind turbine generating electricity. (That
means, a really SMALL one!  A house requires more like a $0K
turbine...)  Now, you take that perfectly good electricity, waste 30%
of it, and generate hydrogen.  You pump and compress it (taking up
another 10-20% of energy) and put it in an internal combustion engine
designed for natural gas.  You use it to displace, asy 20% of the
natural gas used by this engine.

So, lets simply compare the costs of the hydrogen vs. the cost of the
natural gas it is replacing.  The natural gas probably costs less than
$0 per fill up.  Your wind system with the turbine, electrolyzer (by
the way, have you priced these?) pumps, compressors and other
equipment actually cost around $5K, so just the interest on these is
$00 a year.  Assuming a 10 year life (if you are lucky!) then the
cost per year is $100.  Yes, I am being very, very optimistic on
these prices.  Reality is probably 2-10 times worse!  so, if you
normally fill up weekly, you get:

Pure natural gas
$0 per fill up
52 fill ups
$600 a year

Now, you hydrogen system is to defer 20% of this, so your system is

natural gas
$0 per fill up
52 fill ups
$000 per year
$100 per year for hydrogen
$100 per year for your hydrogen scheme.

I, personnally, don't have an extra $500 a year to play with
hydrogen.  Do you?

You are better off using the wind system to charge  batteries, and buy
an electric vehicle by an order of magnitude!


Posted by New_idea on October 12, 2009, 2:45 am

There is a project by Idaho National Laboratory under U.S Department of
Energy that do experiment of running vehicle with “Hydrogen+Natural gas
mixture” or even 100% hydrogen.

It is a good idea if we can use hydrogen to run our (internal combustion)
car by just a few thousand dollars modification on our car.
The question is where to you get hydrogen gas?

One way is to use electricity to electrolysis water, and the electricity can
come from renewable source (wind,solar,hydro power plants)
Some people might said "oh it is a lot cheaper to produce hydrogen from
fossil fuel"
but than you if you do that you still depend on fossil fuel to power you
My point is: stop using fossil fuel to power our vehicle.
If the hydrogen produced by electrolysis process is very expensive, we can
find ways to reduce the cost.

If the electrolysis process I mention in my earlier posting is no good.
If there are other negative effect from this electrolysis process
we can find a better way to electrolysis the water and find ways to improve
it efficiency and find a better ways to do electrolysis so that it will not
produce negative effect ,

example this website talk about adding a small amount of said sulfuric to
the water to increase the efficiency

That is why the scientist needs to do research and development.

Posted by Jim Wilkins on October 12, 2009, 2:04 pm

Or we could use the wind-generated electricity to charge the batteries
of a hybrid and avoid the homebrew chemical engineering, insurance and
waste disposal issues, the ones that bog down small-scale use of many
good ideas.

Just for fun, shop around for stainless steel tanks and plumbing. All
I can find is scrap pipe and sheet metal that I can weld into tubes
and rectangular box shapes, but not pressure vessels even to hold
water-mains pressure. If you DO find a used industrial pressure
vessel, how do you decontaminate it?


Posted by MooseFET on October 12, 2009, 2:41 pm

Don't store hydrogen in steel.  Unless you get the right kind, the
steel gets brittle.

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