Posted by Joe Fischer on February 20, 2007, 12:19 pm
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:35:19 +0100, Trygve Lillefosse
>I live in a costal town, and the gulf stream passes by.
>The medium temp is probarbly about 1-2C in the winter.
>It is rarely below -10c and will hoover around 0c for 2-3 months.
I live at 38 degrees N., but the temperatures are
about the same as yours, except maybe cold spells
can last more than a few days, and it has been as
low as -22 F in 1996.
>I expect my heatpump to warm the whole house until about 0-5c. Below
>that I will probarbly need to use some panel ovens or wood.
I didn't know they made a window unit heat pump
just like an air conditioner, for about $500 I see one is
available that can give me about 5 KW heat for the
price of about 1500 watts most of the year, and can
replace an old air conditioner I have in a back room
that I use in summer, with a thru-the-wall circulating
fan.
That way it cools about 4 rooms and an interior
hallway, with no noise at all where I am, and a very
light refreshing movement of air.
>Right now, i use two panel ovens at 1250W each(with termostats) and
>800w for the bathroom(constant) when there are -4-5c outside. to keep
>one of the floors at a comfortable temperature. I have not cheked
>lately, but I guess that I use about 2500W on average on theese cold
>days.
I have four 1000 watt baseboard heaters in my
room, plus a portable electric baseboard heater, plus
an outlet where I can safely run another portable
heater, and I also use one or two Vicks steam
vaporizers for humidification when it is below
40 F outdoors, while I am sleeping only.
I just added a 451 watt cove heater in the
bathroom last fall, and that works great, it is safe,
and allows me to have a warm bathroom without
turning up the heat in other rooms.
I have a 1200 watt baseboard heater in
the kitchen, but I have a gas range there with
the supply valve turned off that I could use for
heat if the power goes off.
And I have another 1200 watt electric
baseboard panel in a small bedroom that now
use as a workshop for cut vinyl art work and
signs.
The 75,000 BTU / hour natural gas
vented space heater in the living room is good
to have in really cold weather, but I don't spend
much time there now.
>With the heatpump I will warm up all of the house, but will use more
>electricity or wood on cold days, but a lot less on normal/warmer
>winterdays. Especialy since there will always be a "base heat" in the
>house.
I don't see how I can afford NOT to buy a
window unit heat pump to replace the air conditioner
in the back room, in fact there is another back room
I could put another one in.
That would give me more heat, in more space
than I use now, for possibly half the cost on average.
>In spring I am planning to remove the fireplace that are now
>installed. That is a combined parafin and wood stove witch are not
>very effective.(The parafine part has not been used for at least 10
>years). I will put in the old one that is in the basement, and maybee
>install an afterburner if possible.
I want to keep the space heater in the living
room, but I should install a good way to block the
vent completely when I am not using it, then I could
seal the outside doors completely, it should be
safe even if I neglect to open the vent if I use it
because it has an overheat switch in series with
the pilot thermocouple.
I still have the 35,000 BTU / hour vented
space heater in the room with all the baseboard
panels, but I have the vent pipe stored, and the
flue in the old chimney blocked off, I don't plan
to use it at all unless there is an extended power
outage from a wind storm, heavy snow, or ice
that takes out a lot of electric distribution lines,
it is unbelievable that this has been happening
in the US in many areas most years for the
last 60 years, but they still do not put the lines
underground.
There is definitely an advantage in buying
any electric device that can save money over the
existing devices, regardless of type or present
fuel use, as long as adequate backup can be
started up in unusually cold weather.
Joe Fischer
Posted by Trygve Lillefosse on February 22, 2007, 5:22 pm
On Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:19:12 -0500, Joe Fischer
>On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:35:19 +0100, Trygve Lillefosse
>>I live in a costal town, and the gulf stream passes by.
>>
>>The medium temp is probarbly about 1-2C in the winter.
>>It is rarely below -10c and will hoover around 0c for 2-3 months.
> I live at 38 degrees N., but the temperatures are
>about the same as yours, except maybe cold spells
>can last more than a few days, and it has been as
>low as -22 F in 1996.
>>I expect my heatpump to warm the whole house until about 0-5c. Below
>>that I will probarbly need to use some panel ovens or wood.
> I didn't know they made a window unit heat pump
>just like an air conditioner, for about $500 I see one is
>available that can give me about 5 KW heat for the
>price of about 1500 watts most of the year, and can
>replace an old air conditioner I have in a back room
>that I use in summer, with a thru-the-wall circulating
>fan.
> That way it cools about 4 rooms and an interior
>hallway, with no noise at all where I am, and a very
>light refreshing movement of air.
Seems like a pretty ideal setup for a heatpump.
I would be considered about a window unit though, would expect some
draft as it is probarbly hard to seal the gap around the unit.
Make sure that it have automatic defrosting capabilities. If not it
will be covered with ice, and may stop or get realy inefficient when
temperatures gets close to freezing.
> The 75,000 BTU / hour natural gas
>vented space heater in the living room is good
>to have in really cold weather, but I don't spend
>much time there now.
It's probarbly good to use as a backup when it gets cold enough for
the heatpump to work less efficient.
> I don't see how I can afford NOT to buy a
>window unit heat pump to replace the air conditioner
>in the back room, in fact there is another back room
>I could put another one in.
I expect to repay my unit within 3 years.:-) After that i got a "free
energy" device.:-)
But the main advantage will be the "ease of mind" as I can crank up
the heat, knowing that I pay 1/3rd of what I would otherwise do. And I
do not have to think to mutch about retro-insulating the house.
>outage from a wind storm, heavy snow, or ice
>that takes out a lot of electric distribution lines,
>it is unbelievable that this has been happening
>in the US in many areas most years for the
>last 60 years, but they still do not put the lines
>underground.
Also, the transmission capasity is maxed out many places after whet I
understand.
Seems like it's a general way of doing it in the US. Build the
powerlines and try to maximize the usage eto the point where you know
that there will be brownouts/blackouts due to too low capasity.
Same with cellphones, seems like it's a bit dubious weather they work
or not, even in big cities.
> There is definitely an advantage in buying
>any electric device that can save money over the
>existing devices, regardless of type or present
>fuel use, as long as adequate backup can be
>started up in unusually cold weather.
You alway need a backup for such an important thing as heat in the
wintertime. You never know if one source fails. I will rely mostly on
heatpump/electricity since it's no fuzz. But with wood and probarbly a
liquid parafine heater as backups.
--
SEE YA !!!
Trygve Lillefosse
AKA - Malawi, The Fisher King
Posted by Trygve Lillefosse on February 18, 2007, 3:20 pm
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:48:44 +0000, Eeyore
>Trygve Lillefosse wrote:
>> >
>> >>I'we got an AIR to AIR heatpump that 3.xx* at 7c(I think) It's not as
>> >>efficient when temperatures drop bellow zero, but it's suposed to have
>> >>a COP of 2 with outside temperature of -10c
>> >>
>> >>*Don,t remeber exactely, but it gives out 6300Kw and uses 1850Kw
>> >
>> > That seems small, but I like the idea of a unit
>> >that size, in fact, I would like to buy a one-way heat pump
>> >that size, for heat only, a split unit could be built for just
>> >a little more than a window air conditioner.
>>
>> It can be set to heat, cool or mix(will heet/cool as needed to keep
>> set set temp.)
>>
>> It should be bug enough to heat more or less the whole of my house.
>> Witch is a 150M2 wooden house with poor isolation.
>I'm sure a Norwegian's idea of poor insulation is going to be a lot better than
>most Americans !
Maybe, but not realy until maybe 30 years ago, or more than say 80
years ago.
My house was built 50 years ago, with "modern" techniques and not to
mutch isolation.
There is a mix of single and double glazing(the kind you can take
apart). and 5 cm (2 in) of some wooden fiber isolation in the
basement.
Above ground level, there are only cavities in the walls, that
contains mostly still air.
Its retrofitted with 20 of mineral wool in the loft, and I am putting
10cm of the stuff in the basement walls at the moment. (on top of the
5 cm of wood fibers)
A normal house build the last 30 years would have 10-20 cm of mineral
wool in all walls and all double glazing.
Modern houses will have more, and more often than not there will be
tripple glazing or extra efficient double glazing.
Then again, the realy old houses would have thick walls with wool,
sawdust or peat, and are quite energy efficient.
--
SEE YA !!!
Trygve Lillefosse
AKA - Malawi, The Fisher King
Posted by Eeyore on February 15, 2007, 2:12 am
Trygve Lillefosse wrote:
> I'we got an AIR to AIR heatpump that 3.xx* at 7c(I think) It's not as
> efficient when temperatures drop bellow zero, but it's suposed to have
> a COP of 2 with outside temperature of -10c
> *Don,t remeber exactely, but it gives out 6300Kw and uses 1850Kw
What unit is that Trygve ?
Graham
Posted by Trygve Lillefosse on February 15, 2007, 1:55 pm
On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 07:12:55 +0000, Eeyore
>Trygve Lillefosse wrote:
>> I'we got an AIR to AIR heatpump that 3.xx* at 7c(I think) It's not as
>> efficient when temperatures drop bellow zero, but it's suposed to have
>> a COP of 2 with outside temperature of -10c
>>
>> *Don,t remeber exactely, but it gives out 6300Kw and uses 1850Kw
>What unit is that Trygve ?
So I had to find it.. Oh well, here it is.. I remembered incorrectly
on the usage, it was up to 1950Kw
In Norwegian:
http://www.foma-es.com/ESCat.ASP?WCI=GetSubGroup&WCE=0-2361
Norwegian test:
Please note that te Foma pump is a smaller one with R407C cooling
medium. My pump had 410A, and will probarbly follow the line of the
Toshiba in the COP graph at page 15 in this PDF. Also note that this
test is 2 years old, and the products have in general become a lot
better in that time.
http://forbrukerportalen.no/filer/4Varmepumpe.pdf
Foma is the cheapest pumps at the market, especialy since you are
alowed to mount them yourself. So even when they are less effective
than the competitors, they are more economical. (Mine will be paid
back in 2-3 years max)
--
SEE YA !!!
Trygve Lillefosse
AKA - Malawi, The Fisher King
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>The medium temp is probarbly about 1-2C in the winter.
>It is rarely below -10c and will hoover around 0c for 2-3 months.