Posted by Bill Ward on April 14, 2011, 5:00 pm
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:35:10 -0700, Bob F wrote:
> Bill Ward wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:02:37 -0700, Bob F wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Ward wrote:
>>>>> Sometimes a society makes decisions that there are more important
>>>>> things than profits to better the lives of its citizens.
>>>>
>>>> And nearly always screws things up in the process. If profit is the
>>>> result of a free market exchange, how can it be bad? Both
>>>> participants are happier.
>>>
>>> So if I make a profit by murdering you for hire, that's fine with you?
>>
>> Free trade does not mean lawless. That's what the justice system is
>> for. Free trade means consensual exchanges without force or fraud, and
>> the justice system protects the rest of us from loons like you. I won't
>> even mention the 2nd amendment.
>
> There are plenty of things business does that damage others legally.
> They build nuclear plants that leak radioactive contaminants. They
> pollute the air and water. They produce cigarettes that kill people.
> They produce all kimds of products with dangerous defects ...... And few
> of them ever have to pay for the damage they do. They do it all in the
> name of market profits.
Why aren't the laws being enforced? Even if your rant above were true,
it would be a failure of the justice system, not the free market.
> Society then has to pay the damages, medical
> costs, etc.
Not if the legal system does its job.
>
>>> Ummm. Maybe what you said is not true.
>>
>>> You've apparently been exposed to too much Lloyd illogic.
>>
>>>> Those who prefer to get something for nothing appreciate government
>>>> intervention, of course.
>>>
>>> Which is why business hires all those lobbyists.
>>
>> Finally you got one right! Accident, or attempted sarcasm?
Posted by Bill Ward on April 14, 2011, 11:31 pm
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:41:01 -0700, Bob F wrote:
> Bill Ward wrote:
>>>>> So if I make a profit by murdering you for hire, that's fine with
>>>>> you?
>>>>
>>>> Free trade does not mean lawless. That's what the justice system is
>>>> for. Free trade means consensual exchanges without force or fraud,
>>>> and the justice system protects the rest of us from loons like you. I
>>>> won't even mention the 2nd amendment.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of things business does that damage others legally.
>>> They build nuclear plants that leak radioactive contaminants. They
>>> pollute the air and water. They produce cigarettes that kill people.
>>> They produce all kimds of products with dangerous defects ...... And
>>> few of them ever have to pay for the damage they do. They do it all in
>>> the name of market profits.
>>
>> Why aren't the laws being enforced? Even if your rant above were true,
>> it would be a failure of the justice system, not the free market.
>
> The laws are being enforced.
Then why are you complaining?
> They just don't cover all the side effects of the profit motive and the
> consequence of ignoring those side effects for profit, until new
> regulations and laws finally catch up.
What "side effects of the profit motive" are you talking about, and why
would you think new laws will work any better than the old ones, since
you seem to think they are being enforced?
> Are you really this clueless?
I don't think so. You're the one vaguely complaining about the profit
motive, with no specifics. I'm just trying to explain to you how it
works. Have you ever worked for a living? Have you ever made a
payroll?
Posted by Desertphile on April 15, 2011, 4:41 pm
wrote:
> Bill Ward wrote:
> > On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:02:37 -0700, Bob F wrote:
> >
> >> Bill Ward wrote:
> >>>> Sometimes a society makes decisions that there are more important
> >>>> things than profits to better the lives of its citizens.
> >>>
> >>> And nearly always screws things up in the process. If profit is the
> >>> result of a free market exchange, how can it be bad? Both
> >>> participants are happier.
> >> So if I make a profit by murdering you for hire, that's fine with
> >> you?
> > Free trade does not mean lawless. That's what the justice system is
> > for. Free trade means consensual exchanges without force or fraud,
Therefore burning coal in power plants is a failure of the free
market and must be regulated to correct the failure.
> > and the justice system protects the rest of us from loons like you. I
> > won't even mention the 2nd amendment.
Nutter.
> There are plenty of things business does that damage others legally. They
build
> nuclear plants that leak radioactive contaminants. They pollute the air and
> water. They produce cigarettes that kill people. They produce all kimds of
> products with dangerous defects ...... And few of them ever have to pay for
the
> damage they do. They do it all in the name of market profits. Society then
has
> to pay the damages, medical costs, etc.
Yes, and that is why free trade failures must be regulated: when
non-consumers of a product are forced to pay for it (such as in
poor health and medical expenses).
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Posted by Giga2 on April 14, 2011, 8:20 am
> On 4/13/2011 9:45 AM, Bob F wrote:
>> Bill Ward wrote:
>>>> Maybe to do something for the general good?
>>>
>>> Who decides what's the "general good"? Isn't that what the market is
>>> all about?
>>
>> That's the last thing the "market" is about. It is about profits.
>> Sometimes a
>> society makes decisions that there are more important things than profits
>> to
>> better the lives of its citizens.
> You mean the citizens can't decide for themselves? They need some group
> to tell them? Sounds like stupid citizens to me...
Do you ever use experts in your life? Dentists? Doctors? Car mechanic? Did
you buy your car from car manufacturer?
Posted by Peter Franks on April 14, 2011, 2:03 pm
On 4/14/2011 1:20 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>> On 4/13/2011 9:45 AM, Bob F wrote:
>>> Bill Ward wrote:
>>>>> Maybe to do something for the general good?
>>>>
>>>> Who decides what's the "general good"? Isn't that what the market is
>>>> all about?
>>>
>>> That's the last thing the "market" is about. It is about profits.
>>> Sometimes a
>>> society makes decisions that there are more important things than profits
>>> to
>>> better the lives of its citizens.
>>
>> You mean the citizens can't decide for themselves? They need some group
>> to tell them? Sounds like stupid citizens to me...
> Do you ever use experts in your life? Dentists? Doctors? Car mechanic? Did
> you buy your car from car manufacturer?
Except we aren't talking about experts, we are talking about 'society
making decisions' on our behalf.
It sure is hard to talk to you types when you keep misconstruing
EVERYTHING I say.
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>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:02:37 -0700, Bob F wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Ward wrote:
>>>>> Sometimes a society makes decisions that there are more important
>>>>> things than profits to better the lives of its citizens.
>>>>
>>>> And nearly always screws things up in the process. If profit is the
>>>> result of a free market exchange, how can it be bad? Both
>>>> participants are happier.
>>>
>>> So if I make a profit by murdering you for hire, that's fine with you?
>>
>> Free trade does not mean lawless. That's what the justice system is
>> for. Free trade means consensual exchanges without force or fraud, and
>> the justice system protects the rest of us from loons like you. I won't
>> even mention the 2nd amendment.
>
> There are plenty of things business does that damage others legally.
> They build nuclear plants that leak radioactive contaminants. They
> pollute the air and water. They produce cigarettes that kill people.
> They produce all kimds of products with dangerous defects ...... And few
> of them ever have to pay for the damage they do. They do it all in the
> name of market profits.