Posted by Bill Ward on April 7, 2011, 8:00 pm
On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>
>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>
>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking $$
>>>> from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>
>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a community
>>> and we
>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are not
>>> willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need various
>>> other
>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>
>> Force.
>>
>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>
> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
> force.
So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your plan?
You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place of the
victim.
Posted by Giga2 on April 8, 2011, 7:50 am
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>
>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking $$
>>>>> from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>
>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a community
>>>> and we
>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are not
>>>> willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need various
>>>> other
>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>
>>> Force.
>>>
>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>
>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
>> force.
> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your plan?
> You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place of the
> victim.
If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes, then I
would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured force against you.
Posted by Bill Ward on April 8, 2011, 3:39 pm
On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>
>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking $$
>>>>>> from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>> community and we
>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are
>>>>> not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need
>>>>> various other
>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>
>>>> Force.
>>>>
>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>>
>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
>>> force.
>>
>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your plan?
>> You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place of the
>> victim.
>
> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes, then
> I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured force
> against you.
Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of Federal
government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to the states and
people.
Government IS force. Remember that when proposing new areas of
regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in your
shower, even though you bought the water when it passed through the meter.
Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet that
uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush... Where does it
end?
Posted by Giga2 on April 8, 2011, 7:17 pm
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking $$
>>>>>>> from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>>> community and we
>>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are
>>>>>> not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need
>>>>>> various other
>>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>>
>>>>> Force.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>>>
>>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
>>>> force.
>>>
>>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your plan?
>>> You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place of the
>>> victim.
>>
>> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes, then
>> I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured force
>> against you.
> Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of Federal
> government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to the states and
> people.
> Government IS force.
No, force is force, government can and does use force but it is not itself
force.
>Remember that when proposing new areas of
> regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in your
> shower, even though you bought the water when it passed through the meter.
> Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet that
> uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush... Where does it
> end?
That is not true in this country. Also the great thing in the UK is if I
don't like the laws here I am free to leave.
Posted by Bill Ward on April 8, 2011, 9:47 pm
On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:17:27 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>
>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking
>>>>>>>> $$ from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>>>> community and we
>>>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are
>>>>>>> not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need
>>>>>>> various other
>>>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Force.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
>>>>> force.
>>>>
>>>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your
>>>> plan? You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place
>>>> of the victim.
>>>
>>> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes,
>>> then I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured force
>>> against you.
>>
>> Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of
>> Federal government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to the
>> states and people.
>>
>> Government IS force.
>
> No, force is force, government can and does use force but it is not
> itself force.
Without force, it's not a government, simply an advisory committee.
>>Remember that when proposing new areas of
>> regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in your
>> shower, even though you bought the water when it passed through the
>> meter.
>>
>> Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet
>> that uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush... Where
>> does it end?
>>
> That is not true in this country.
Are you sure?
> Also the great thing in the UK is if I
> don't like the laws here I am free to leave.
Same here. You can tell a lot about a country from which way the barbed
wire on the border fence points.
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>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>
>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>
>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking $$
>>>> from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>
>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a community
>>> and we
>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are not
>>> willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need various
>>> other
>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>
>> Force.
>>
>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>
> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
> force.