Posted by Giga2 on April 9, 2011, 6:56 am
> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:17:27 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>>>>>>> around 5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking
>>>>>>>>> $$ from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>>>>> community and we
>>>>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are
>>>>>>>> not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need
>>>>>>>> various other
>>>>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Force.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>>>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
>>>>>> force.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your
>>>>> plan? You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place
>>>>> of the victim.
>>>>
>>>> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes,
>>>> then I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured force
>>>> against you.
>>>
>>> Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of
>>> Federal government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to the
>>> states and people.
>>>
>>> Government IS force.
>>
>> No, force is force, government can and does use force but it is not
>> itself force.
> Without force, it's not a government, simply an advisory committee.
>>>Remember that when proposing new areas of
>>> regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in your
>>> shower, even though you bought the water when it passed through the
>>> meter.
>>>
>>> Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet
>>> that uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush... Where
>>> does it end?
>>>
>> That is not true in this country.
> Are you sure?
Yes. It is not allowed to *sell* 100w lightbulbs, using them is not illegal.
Again there are building rgulations but these effect only those suppling new
appliances not those using them.
>> Also the great thing in the UK is if I
>> don't like the laws here I am free to leave.
> Same here. You can tell a lot about a country from which way the barbed
> wire on the border fence points.
On the other hand if I don't take the option to leave then I tacitly accept
the law of that country.
Posted by Bill Ward on April 9, 2011, 7:49 am
On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:56:55 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:17:27 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>
>>>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected
>>>>>>>>>>>> to amount to
>>>>>>>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking
>>>>>>>>>> $$ from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>>>>>> community and we
>>>>>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some
>>>>>>>>> are not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they
>>>>>>>>> need various other
>>>>>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Force.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>>>>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for
>>>>>>> any force.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your
>>>>>> plan? You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place
>>>>>> of the victim.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes,
>>>>> then I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured
>>>>> force against you.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of
>>>> Federal government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to
>>>> the states and people.
>>>>
>>>> Government IS force.
>>>
>>> No, force is force, government can and does use force but it is not
>>> itself force.
>>
>> Without force, it's not a government, simply an advisory committee.
>>
>>>>Remember that when proposing new areas of
>>>> regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in
>>>> your shower, even though you bought the water when it passed through
>>>> the meter.
>>>>
>>>> Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet
>>>> that uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush...
>>>> Where does it end?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That is not true in this country.
>>
>> Are you sure?
>
> Yes. It is not allowed to *sell* 100w lightbulbs, using them is not
> illegal. Again there are building rgulations but these effect only those
> suppling new appliances not those using them.
Wait for it.
>>> Also the great thing in the UK is if I don't like the laws here I am
>>> free to leave.
>>
>> Same here. You can tell a lot about a country from which way the
>> barbed wire on the border fence points.
>>
> On the other hand if I don't take the option to leave then I tacitly
> accept the law of that country.
Or change the offending laws. We're in that messy but necessary process
right now.
Posted by Giga2 on April 9, 2011, 11:28 am
> On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:56:55 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:17:27 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to amount to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> around 5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking
>>>>>>>>>>> $$ from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>>>>>>> community and we
>>>>>>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some
>>>>>>>>>> are not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they
>>>>>>>>>> need various other
>>>>>>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Force.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>>>>>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for
>>>>>>>> any force.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your
>>>>>>> plan? You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place
>>>>>>> of the victim.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes,
>>>>>> then I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured
>>>>>> force against you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of
>>>>> Federal government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to
>>>>> the states and people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Government IS force.
>>>>
>>>> No, force is force, government can and does use force but it is not
>>>> itself force.
>>>
>>> Without force, it's not a government, simply an advisory committee.
>>>
>>>>>Remember that when proposing new areas of
>>>>> regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in
>>>>> your shower, even though you bought the water when it passed through
>>>>> the meter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet
>>>>> that uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush...
>>>>> Where does it end?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That is not true in this country.
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>
>> Yes. It is not allowed to *sell* 100w lightbulbs, using them is not
>> illegal. Again there are building rgulations but these effect only those
>> suppling new appliances not those using them.
> Wait for it.
>>>> Also the great thing in the UK is if I don't like the laws here I am
>>>> free to leave.
>>>
>>> Same here. You can tell a lot about a country from which way the
>>> barbed wire on the border fence points.
>>>
>> On the other hand if I don't take the option to leave then I tacitly
>> accept the law of that country.
> Or change the offending laws. We're in that messy but necessary process
> right now.
But during the process of change you still need to recognise that you are
tacitly accepting the law by remaining in the country, though you may not
agree with it, if you see what I mean.
Posted by Bill Ward on April 9, 2011, 6:02 pm
On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 12:28:38 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>> On Sat, 09 Apr 2011 07:56:55 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>
>>>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:17:27 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to amount to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around £5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Taking $$ from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>>>>>>>> community and we
>>>>>>>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some
>>>>>>>>>>> are not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so
>>>>>>>>>>> they need various other
>>>>>>>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Force.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is
>>>>>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>>>>>>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for
>>>>>>>>> any force.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your
>>>>>>>> plan? You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the
>>>>>>>> place of the victim.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes,
>>>>>>> then I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured
>>>>>>> force against you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of
>>>>>> Federal government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to
>>>>>> the states and people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Government IS force.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, force is force, government can and does use force but it is not
>>>>> itself force.
>>>>
>>>> Without force, it's not a government, simply an advisory committee.
>>>>
>>>>>>Remember that when proposing new areas of
>>>>>> regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in
>>>>>> your shower, even though you bought the water when it passed
>>>>>> through the meter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet
>>>>>> that uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush...
>>>>>> Where does it end?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> That is not true in this country.
>>>>
>>>> Are you sure?
>>>
>>> Yes. It is not allowed to *sell* 100w lightbulbs, using them is not
>>> illegal. Again there are building rgulations but these effect only
>>> those suppling new appliances not those using them.
>>
>> Wait for it.
>>
>>>>> Also the great thing in the UK is if I don't like the laws here I am
>>>>> free to leave.
>>>>
>>>> Same here. You can tell a lot about a country from which way the
>>>> barbed wire on the border fence points.
>>>>
>>> On the other hand if I don't take the option to leave then I tacitly
>>> accept the law of that country.
>>
>> Or change the offending laws. We're in that messy but necessary
>> process right now.
>>
>>
> But during the process of change you still need to recognise that you
> are tacitly accepting the law by remaining in the country, though you
> may not agree with it, if you see what I mean.
Exactly.
Posted by rasterspace on April 10, 2011, 12:30 am
consider the amount of mercury that is going into landfills.
XML site map
>>> On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:50:33 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:12:45 +0100, Giga2" <"Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/7/2011 1:33 AM, Giga2 <Giga2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Considering the fact that renewables subsidies are expected to
>>>>>>>>>>> amount to
>>>>>>>>>>> around 5 billion in 2020
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good, could be more though!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Government) Subsidies is a feel-good word for stealing. Taking
>>>>>>>>> $$ from one group by force and giving to another.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is one way to look at it. Another is that we live in a
>>>>>>>> community and we
>>>>>>>> all should be happy to contribute something to the whole. Some are
>>>>>>>> not willing to voluntarily, they just want to take, so they need
>>>>>>>> various other
>>>>>>>> incentitives rather than a sense of community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Force.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are advocating forcing people to do what you think is right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all. As long as they go quietly to court and to prison,
>>>>>> (eventually if they really are that obstinate), then no need for any
>>>>>> force.
>>>>>
>>>>> So you would only use force on those who don't go along with your
>>>>> plan? You might want to rethink that, putting yourself in the place
>>>>> of the victim.
>>>>
>>>> If you use force to try to break the law, i.e. not pay your taxes,
>>>> then I would say the state is perfectly entitled to use measured force
>>>> against you.
>>>
>>> Of course it is. That's why the Constitution limits the power of
>>> Federal government to only those enumerated, leaving all others to the
>>> states and people.
>>>
>>> Government IS force.
>>
>> No, force is force, government can and does use force but it is not
>> itself force.
> Without force, it's not a government, simply an advisory committee.
>>>Remember that when proposing new areas of
>>> regulation. You could go to jail for using too much water flow in your
>>> shower, even though you bought the water when it passed through the
>>> meter.
>>>
>>> Or for using a 100W incandescent light bulb. Or for using a toilet
>>> that uses more than the approved amount of water for a flush... Where
>>> does it end?
>>>
>> That is not true in this country.
> Are you sure?