Trace T1112 inverter vs. Coleman 2000

 Hello all you smart guys in the know,

    I've come across a new Trace T1112 inverter kit rated at 1100 watts
continual use.  It's for sale at a cost of approx $275. I've also been
looking at the Coleman 2000w continual use with a surge of 4000w.  The
Coleman goes for about $250.  I'm a bit skeptical of the Colemans claims,
and the Trace looks to be of much better quality.  I like the claim of
4000watt peak performance out of the coleman, but will it really produce??

Anybody know about the coleman and it's realistic performance? Likewise with
the Trace.

Any advice appreciated.
Toby

  Here in hurricane country, we call Coleman's cheap generators a
"temporary solution" because they only run a few hours before the
cheap sleeve bearings and other things fall apart.  That is the reason
they are SO cheap, you know.....corners cut at the expense of long
running and reliability.

I don't see that model, but Trace's model number means 1100W, 12V
input.  Dividing 1100 by 12 I get a full load current over 91 amps!
Because it's not 100% efficient in converting to AC, let's round up to
100A at 12V.  You're gonna need some POWERFUL big battery banks to
sustain anywhere near this power level for long.....real expensive
battery banks.

In yachts, I have a saying:
"Nothing is funnier than watching a boater with a new 4KW inverter
carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big smile on his
face."

See why?

wrote:


Larry W4CSC

 I'm looking at approx 300w continual use for anywhere from 30 minutes to 3
hours at a run, with an occassional zapping of my coffee or a cold burrito
in a 600 watt microwave, and occassional use of a laptop and inkjet printer.
I've got 2 large automotive batteries isolated from the vehicles starting
battery, so if I drain the bank alittle too much, no big deal. I know deep
cycle or golf cart batteries would be much better, but I have these 2 good
batteries still under warranty for free. My stepvan has a 4000w alternator
which I figure will help recharge if the bank gets low, or I can always fire
up my 5KW generator.  My mission here is to reduce the use of the very
noisey generator for the normally low power demands.

I'm thinking the Trace is a much more reliable unit, true? I wasn't planning
on buying an inverter for another couple of weeks. ( I prefer to spend cash,
not credit) but if this Trace is a bargain at $275.00 then I will.

thanks for the info Larry,
Toby


produce??

 wrote:


Aha!! Another REAL man stepvanner!  Nice to meet you, Toby...(c;

The keyword above is "continual".  The microwave is a no-sweat because
its power drain is so intermittent.  To get 300W, you'll need a little
more.  Just for simplicity, let's say 320W.  320W divided by 12V =
27A, which is fairly close to the rated drain test for a deep cycle
battery.  (more about your "automotive batteries" in a minute.)  So,
if we have two 130AH deep cycles = 260AH of total capacity.
Discharging them below 50% of rated capacity will make a battery
manufacturer's day because they won't last long from the sulphation of
repeated deep discharges.  So, a more honest figure will be 130AH for
usable capacity.  Charging them beyond 85% of full charge is a LONG,
slow process, so we end up using them, realistically, between 50% and
85% of their rated capacity....from 130AH to 220AH for a difference of
90AH.  Doesn't sound like much, does it.  It truly isn't.

Realistically, without really shortening battery life with sulphation,
your 27A "continuous" load should not be left on two deep cycle marine
batteries more than 4 hours before recharging these.  I'm using two
330AH 6V golf cart batteries, the best, most economical solution
because they are SO cheap ($69/ea?) would stretch that 27A load to 5
hours with long life.  (Don't worry about the microwave, it's short
load is nothing.)

In the sailing vessel "Lionheart", an Amel Sharki 41 cruising ketch
I'm nearly finished rebuilding so we can escape in March to sea, I
have two banks of 700AH golf cart batteries for 1400AH capacity.  Back
to realism, this gives me 700 (50%) to 1190 (85%) for a difference of
490 AH of safely usable capacity.  There is a nice AH meter installed
on these "house batteries" that runs 24/7/365 and alarms me lower than
50% to trigger cranking the diesel to recharge them.  They're
recharged at the dock by a very slow 10A trickle charger with auto
shutoff and at sea when we need to recharge faster by a 125A
engine-driven alternator with not enough fan belt to pull it at
times...(c;  To get back to 85% capacity, it takes about 6 hours as
the charge tapers off.  We run an extensive electronics communications
and navigation system with a 2KW radar, color chart plotters, Dell
notebook, electronic paper chart plotter, 2 VHF marine radios, 1 HF
marine radio (150W transmitter), and the big power pig a B&G Network
Pilot electro-hydraulic autopilot which has an electric hydraulic pump
that runs intermittently to move the rudder and draws up to 13A to do
it.  It doesn't run until the rudder needs moving, which is a LOT at
sea in the swells/waves/wind under sail.  I get extended run times
from several other sources of power.  There's a big solar panel that
adds 5A to the charging, an electronically controlled shaft alternator
that gets its power from the seawater running past the main propeller
under sail that adds 12-15A if the wind is fresh and we're haulin'
ass, and a marine windcharger we only use at anchorage because it's in
the way of the sails at sea and probably wouldn't survive because we
race the boat in heavy weather.

NOW LETS TALK ABOUT THOSE DAMNED CAR BATTERIES for a minute....

Car batteries are made for LOTS of INSTANT current drained away in
SECONDS, not minutes and especially not hours.  They are constructed
of LOTS of very thin lead plates to provide all those instant
electrons, JUST BEFORE THE ALTERNATOR RECHARGES THEM QUICKLY.

What happens when you discharge them is that, to get all that current,
battery manufacturers put in a more concentrated, powerful acid to eat
the plates, which makes the power to run the starter.  As a matter of
fact, there's plenty of acid to eat these thin plates if the damned
engine doesn't want to start.......

Now you come along and try to use them for deep cycle
batteries.....not good.  The strong acid eats into the really thin
plates making a concentrated lead sulphate solution that's NOT going
to be recharged in a few seconds after it's used.  The plates soon end
up as lead sulphate crystals, sinking to the bottom and not
recoverable.  They won't last long in your service.

The most economical solution is 6V golf cart batteries.  The 330AH
ones are $69 each in discount houses.  They have thick plates and not
enough acid to eat holes in them.  They're made for our discharges.
Just jumper two in series.  The ones in my stepvan have been powering
my shop and the 800 watt DJ outdoor sound system for two years, now.


I'm a great fan of Tripplite inverters and UPSs because I've been
using them on computers for so many years.  If anything you plug into
a Tripplite power source is damaged by surge, or even lightning,
Tripplite will replace it up to $50,000.  I've never been able to
destroy one.  The van has two, a 500W permanently mounted to the
bulkhead behind the driver's door wired into the golf cart house
batteries in the step well's aft end in a custom-made wooden box a
friend made for me.  It sends power to a military surplus noise filter
to smooth out any high frequency noise it creates into an outlet strip
the benches and preamps plug into.  My power amps are big car stereo
12V amps with their own inverters, two of them, 400W/channel.

Tripplites work great.  The 500W model was about $100.  The 300W was
$55?  Something like that.

Trace jacks the price up for the yachtie crowd.  Everything made for
BOATS is double in price.  I don't think jackin the price of a product
up makes it better, or putting it in a slick case, either.  I'm sure
Trace is a fine product, but certainly no better than a Tripplite with
a $50K insurance policy that's free with it.

Everyone stay away from the RADIO SHACK 600W inverters!  Someone I
know got one and took it back for another after it BLEW his
electronics!  When the damned things come on they put out 160VAC for
the first 1/2 second before the regulator decides to finally cut down
the switchters!!  STAY FAR AWAY FROM THEM!!

Hey, stepvanners gotta hang together!  Mine is Air Force surplus and
spent the first 13 years of its life on the flight line at Pope AFB,
NC running its 6.2L diesel engine 30 mph from the aircraft engine shop
to the C-130 transports haulin' parts and stuff.  It had 55K miles on
it when I got it and USAF won't sell any vehicle unless it's in good
shape so you taxpayers put new tires, hoses, belts and two brand new
red AGM starting batteries in it before dumping it on the market.  I
paid $3500 for it from a used car dealer near home.  Best $3500 I ever
spent on a vehicle.  It only had one seat, but that was on a recall
from Chevy so I took it to the Chevy dealer and Chevy installed two
brand new seat mounts to replace the defective ones in a
manufacturer's recall, worth over $300 so the mechanic told me.  It's
a 1988 Union City Body on a light duty chassis with single, but big,
wheels in back.  Makes a great electronics shop.  I just found a honey
sweet deal on a brand new Honda EU3000is inverter genset for $1500
from a 5th wheel retiree who was returning it to trade up to bigger
power.  It will be mounted on the full-width portside swing door where
my EU1000i was last summer.  EU3000is is one sweet genset!

Larry


Larry W4CSC

 Please don't try comparing any Tripplite inverters to a Trace! My
brother and I designed the U series inverter. It is a bargain at 275.
Tripplite is never used to power a home, Trace is. There is a very
good reason for this. The Trace inverters work. Trace Engineering no
longer exists, so get the inverter while you can, or else you will
have to settle for a toy.

not@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in message