Posted by Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds on April 19, 2009, 12:57 am
Was watching a "green" show that had a
Trombe wall and started thinking that if
properly modified, a design might
include little niches where you could
plant sun tolerant plants. This could
serve two purposes. The plants might
help absorb heat and they would probably
help clean indoor air.
Are there any serious problems with my
thinking? I can see that proper watering
and maintenance might present a problem,
but not insurmountable.
Posted by Eeyore on April 19, 2009, 8:12 am
Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds wrote:
> Was watching a "green" show that had a
> Trombe wall and started thinking that if
> properly modified, a design might
> include little niches where you could
> plant sun tolerant plants. This could
> serve two purposes. The plants might
> help absorb heat and they would probably
> help clean indoor air.
> Are there any serious problems with my
> thinking? I can see that proper watering
> and maintenance might present a problem,
> but not insurmountable.
I doubt the plants would absorb any more heat than the wall but do take
a look at this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-emissivity
Graham
Posted by Tim Jackson on April 20, 2009, 5:52 am
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds wrote:
>
>> Was watching a "green" show that had a
>> Trombe wall and started thinking that if
>> properly modified, a design might
>> include little niches where you could
>> plant sun tolerant plants. This could
>> serve two purposes. The plants might
>> help absorb heat and they would probably
>> help clean indoor air.
>>
>> Are there any serious problems with my
>> thinking? I can see that proper watering
>> and maintenance might present a problem,
>> but not insurmountable.
>
> I doubt the plants would absorb any more heat than the wall but do take
> a look at this.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-emissivity
>
> Graham
>
>
That Wiki looks very suspect to me.
It states
"The principal mechanism of heat transfer in multilayer glazing is
thermal radiation from warm surfaces to cooler surfaces"
That is rarely true, unless the gap is evacuated, eg a Thermos flask.
As I understand it radiant heat transfer between two surfaces at around
ambient temperature is quite a bit smaller than the conductive loss
through the best commercial glazing. Radiant loss to *space*
(effectively a very cold surface) from glazing or any other surface can
be quite significant, but depends on the atmospheric humidity and the
solid-angle of view of the sky from the window. Basically only on a
very cold clear night with a good view of the sky.
If you compare the published r-value of high-performance glazing to that
of plain glass, the improvement is in the order of at best tens of
percent, not hundreds.
Tim Jackson
Posted by Eeyore on April 20, 2009, 11:23 am
Tim Jackson wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds wrote:
> >
> >> Was watching a "green" show that had a
> >> Trombe wall and started thinking that if
> >> properly modified, a design might
> >> include little niches where you could
> >> plant sun tolerant plants. This could
> >> serve two purposes. The plants might
> >> help absorb heat and they would probably
> >> help clean indoor air.
> >>
> >> Are there any serious problems with my
> >> thinking? I can see that proper watering
> >> and maintenance might present a problem,
> >> but not insurmountable.
> >
> > I doubt the plants would absorb any more heat than the wall but do take
> > a look at this.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-emissivity
> That Wiki looks very suspect to me.
> It states
> "The principal mechanism of heat transfer in multilayer glazing is
> thermal radiation from warm surfaces to cooler surfaces"
> That is rarely true, unless the gap is evacuated, eg a Thermos flask.
> As I understand it radiant heat transfer between two surfaces at around
> ambient temperature is quite a bit smaller than the conductive loss
> through the best commercial glazing. Radiant loss to *space*
> (effectively a very cold surface) from glazing or any other surface can
> be quite significant, but depends on the atmospheric humidity and the
> solid-angle of view of the sky from the window. Basically only on a
> very cold clear night with a good view of the sky.
> If you compare the published r-value of high-performance glazing to that
> of plain glass, the improvement is in the order of at best tens of
> percent, not hundreds.
You're not familiar with low-E glass ? Since I believe it was invented by
Pilkington of the UK I can see that Americans might reject it on a NIH ( not
invented here ) basis.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en&hs=hdv&q=low-e+glass&btnG=Search
Graham
Posted by Tim Jackson on April 20, 2009, 5:13 pm
Eeyore wrote:
>
> Tim Jackson wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>> Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>>> Was watching a "green" show that had a
>>>> Trombe wall and started thinking that if
>>>> properly modified, a design might
>>>> include little niches where you could
>>>> plant sun tolerant plants. This could
>>>> serve two purposes. The plants might
>>>> help absorb heat and they would probably
>>>> help clean indoor air.
>>>>
>>>> Are there any serious problems with my
>>>> thinking? I can see that proper watering
>>>> and maintenance might present a problem,
>>>> but not insurmountable.
>>> I doubt the plants would absorb any more heat than the wall but do take
>>> a look at this.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-emissivity
>> That Wiki looks very suspect to me.
>>
>> It states
>> "The principal mechanism of heat transfer in multilayer glazing is
>> thermal radiation from warm surfaces to cooler surfaces"
>>
>> That is rarely true, unless the gap is evacuated, eg a Thermos flask.
>>
>> As I understand it radiant heat transfer between two surfaces at around
>> ambient temperature is quite a bit smaller than the conductive loss
>> through the best commercial glazing. Radiant loss to *space*
>> (effectively a very cold surface) from glazing or any other surface can
>> be quite significant, but depends on the atmospheric humidity and the
>> solid-angle of view of the sky from the window. Basically only on a
>> very cold clear night with a good view of the sky.
>>
>> If you compare the published r-value of high-performance glazing to that
>> of plain glass, the improvement is in the order of at best tens of
>> percent, not hundreds.
>
> You're not familiar with low-E glass ? Since I believe it was invented by
> Pilkington of the UK I can see that Americans might reject it on a NIH ( not
> invented here ) basis.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en&hs=hdv&q=low-e+glass&btnG=Search
>
> Graham
>
I'm familiar with it, I've read manufacturer's spec sheets, I understand
how it works, its uses and abuses. I disagree with the statement I
quoted as unwarranted on the basis of physics. The statement actually
has nothing to do with coated glass, it is supposed to be a statement of
the problem that glass addresses.
Tim
(an hour's drive from St Helens)
> Trombe wall and started thinking that if
> properly modified, a design might
> include little niches where you could
> plant sun tolerant plants. This could
> serve two purposes. The plants might
> help absorb heat and they would probably
> help clean indoor air.
> Are there any serious problems with my
> thinking? I can see that proper watering
> and maintenance might present a problem,
> but not insurmountable.