Posted by Winston on April 7, 2009, 5:58 am
Curbie wrote:
(..)
> NOT GREAT, but then again, NOT BAD, but then again, TOO MANY UN-KNOWN
> VARIABLES for me to run with the idea just yet. I think it has enough
> merit to experiment (on the cheap) to try and nail down some of
> variables to see if I can make the numbers work.
Hokay. Keep us posted!
--Winston
--
Don't *faff*, dear.
Posted by Richard W. on April 7, 2009, 6:32 pm
> Winston.
>>You are on to something there, Curbie.
> I'm on to two somethings here the HYPE and the REALITY of the idea,
> separating the two is only the first step.
> Nature seems to have algae to provide whatever it needs, scientists
> think they only cataloged 10%, the rest are either un-discovered or
> dormant just waiting for nature's circumstances to throw a party for
> them (the HYPE).
> The REALITY is when we try to throw a party for algae to produce
> something that nature doesn't need, as Tim points out, nature can send
> algae to crash, contaminate, and spoil our party.
> So, the two commercial solutions so far is find/grow an low-yield
> indigenous algae in an open raceway (cheaper) OR use a best-yield
> non-indigenous algae enclosed in photo-bio-reactor to try and protect
> it from party crashers (more expensive). Both plans are subject to
> contamination.
> A home-scale effort seems to me to rests on your ability to find a
> suitable indigenous algae for the cheaper raceway plan,
> photo-bio-reactors even home-built ones made with commercial tubes (or
> tubes built from commercial sheets) is a BIG expense.
> I experimented with 2 liter coke bottles (clear), peeling the label
> off, gluing them end to end and configured horizontally (to avoid the
> effects of gravity on the bottom bottle in a vertical configuration)
> with a plastic tube running end to end for CO2 (air contains too much
> oxygen that will poison algae contained in a photo-bio-reactor). Coke
> bottles are trashed in huge amounts, I collected over 100 in a couple
> hours by fishing through recycle bins of large apartment complexes
> nearby. I'm confident I could collect 4000 free 2 liter coke bottles
> for a 1000 gallon photo-bio-reactor in no time.
> MORE MATH CHEESE derived from a European Photo-Bio-Reactor company who
> published way too much technical information in their sales
> literature, I knew the literature was created by the tech group
> instead of sales group and was a business mistake when first saw it. I
> checked back tonight and they replaced their technical information
> with standard sales hype, but too late. I already go it.
> I plugged their specs into a spread-sheet to produce ratios for
> volume, algae, and individual nutrients per gallon which were
> basically consistent between their 1, 10, 25, 50, & 100 ton
> photo-bio-reactor products. Their products were tuned for a specific
> best-yield non-indigenous oil-algae so individual nutrients per gallon
> are not really relevant to my point.
> The point is, using their ratios, for that specific algae, with a
> year-round growing season (or heat to keep the algae party going) a
> 1000 gallon coke bottle photo-bio-reactor could only produce 500
> gallons of oil for bio-diesel per year best case.
> NOT GREAT, but then again, NOT BAD, but then again, TOO MANY UN-KNOWN
> VARIABLES for me to run with the idea just yet. I think it has enough
> merit to experiment (on the cheap) to try and nail down some of
> variables to see if I can make the numbers work.
> Curbie
Have you considered going to Kmart and getting a 15 foot diameter pool 42"
deep? A swimming pool will turn green in a week with no chlorine in it.
These pools cost some where around $00 or they did last time I bought one.
It seems that all the algae just needs light to grow.
Richard W.
Posted by Curbie on April 7, 2009, 7:42 pm
Richard,
>Have you considered going to Kmart and getting a 15 foot diameter pool 42"
>deep? A swimming pool will turn green in a week with no chlorine in it.
>These pools cost some where around $00 or they did last time I bought one.
>It seems that all the algae just needs light to grow.
I have considered the I idea of using pool liner LIKE material for a
sallow raceway, raceways need to be only 12 to 18" deep because sun
light need to penetrate the algae for photosynthesis and when the
algae gets going light penetration is limited to the top 4" of the
surface.
Light for photosynthesis is obviously important but in my view
nutrient ratios are also critical and something you can and have to
control (you can't control sun light in a raceway system).
Having said that, I wouldn't worry too much about raceway design until
(and IF) I found a suitable indigenous strain of algae, else it's
Best-yield non-indigenous algae with a photo-bio-reactor and a whole
new set of concerns.
Curbie
Posted by Richard W. on April 9, 2009, 5:50 am
> Richard,
>>Have you considered going to Kmart and getting a 15 foot diameter pool 42"
>>deep? A swimming pool will turn green in a week with no chlorine in it.
>>These pools cost some where around $00 or they did last time I bought
>>one.
>>It seems that all the algae just needs light to grow.
> I have considered the I idea of using pool liner LIKE material for a
> sallow raceway, raceways need to be only 12 to 18" deep because sun
> light need to penetrate the algae for photosynthesis and when the
> algae gets going light penetration is limited to the top 4" of the
> surface.
> Light for photosynthesis is obviously important but in my view
> nutrient ratios are also critical and something you can and have to
> control (you can't control sun light in a raceway system).
> Having said that, I wouldn't worry too much about raceway design until
> (and IF) I found a suitable indigenous strain of algae, else it's
> Best-yield non-indigenous algae with a photo-bio-reactor and a whole
> new set of concerns.
> Curbie
You must be talking about some pretty thick algae. The stuff I seen in
swimming pools went right down to the bottom and there was still plenty of
light. I would think you could filter out some alge every week, saving the
rest to grow more.
Richard W.
Posted by Curbie on April 9, 2009, 7:31 am
Richard,
>You must be talking about some pretty thick algae. The stuff I seen in
>swimming pools went right down to the bottom and there was still plenty of
>light. I would think you could filter out some alge every week, saving the
>rest to grow more.
You got to remember you're throwing the prefect pool party for
particular strain, you're buying the food, drink, and happy gas (CO2),
and then seeding it with a guests, you what it to elbow to elbow. You
hopefully will be continuously harvesting, that's the whole point!
Curbie
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> VARIABLES for me to run with the idea just yet. I think it has enough
> merit to experiment (on the cheap) to try and nail down some of
> variables to see if I can make the numbers work.