Posted by harry on April 7, 2009, 7:10 pm
> > I would have personal problems in helping you with boiler/receiver
> > units UNTIL you could demonstrate a through grasp of heat collection
> > for your location, in my opinion, there is no need to monkey around
> > with the dangers of steam temperatures or pressures until you
> > understand parabolics and the rough size of the collector you need to
> > build.
> Well, I'm 56 years old and still have all of my fingers and head parts and
> I've done a lot of things. I'm not a boilermaker but I'm aware of the
> potential hazards and am confident that I could produce steam without
> killing my self otherwise I wouldn't even be discussing it. You mentioned
> in another thread "taking a different approach" and that's what I tend to
> do. Sometimes when something is considered impossible or impractical it may
> simply be under a certain set of circumstances. Several people who's
> opinions I respect have told me that I'm pretty much wasting my time messing
> around with steam however I keep coming back to it as a likely solution to
> my electricity needs. From my current point of view the main factor is what
> kind of motor would be the most suitable. Making steam doesn't seem to be
> very difficult. Perhaps I'm just not understanding just how hot and how
> much pressure we are talking about. In a simple experiment I produced about
> 80 psi in a short time using very little water and not all that much heat.
> I know that 80 psi can run an air tool and produce over 50 volts at
> somewhere around 1-2 amps. I don't think I necessarily need to produce 1200
> degrees F or hundreds of psi just to make one HP.
> > This knowledge coupled with a general idea of the collector
> > design/cost could kill your enthusiasm for the whole idea. As I said
> > in another post a 20' collector may only net you 2 usable hp 5-6 hours
> > a day.
> 2 HP will work for me.
> > If you are a good "scrounger" you could use mirrors but at the end of
> > the day, I'm not sure how much money you'd save over a sheet metal and
> > reflective film design.
> I usually experiment with whatever is laying around and if it looks
> promising enough I build with the best materials that I can get.
Pressure vessels are inherently dangerous unless properly designed.
That said you could do it. However why not consider a monotube or
flash boiler, ie a length of pipe coiled into whatever shape suits?
Even if it was to burst, there would be no destructive explosion
though you could get scalded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_boiler
Posted by Ulysses on April 8, 2009, 4:45 pm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I would have personal problems in helping you with boiler/receiver
> > > units UNTIL you could demonstrate a through grasp of heat collection
> > > for your location, in my opinion, there is no need to monkey around
> > > with the dangers of steam temperatures or pressures until you
> > > understand parabolics and the rough size of the collector you need to
> > > build.
> >
> > Well, I'm 56 years old and still have all of my fingers and head parts
and
> > I've done a lot of things. I'm not a boilermaker but I'm aware of the
> > potential hazards and am confident that I could produce steam without
> > killing my self otherwise I wouldn't even be discussing it. You
mentioned
> > in another thread "taking a different approach" and that's what I tend
to
> > do. Sometimes when something is considered impossible or impractical it
may
> > simply be under a certain set of circumstances. Several people who's
> > opinions I respect have told me that I'm pretty much wasting my time
messing
> > around with steam however I keep coming back to it as a likely solution
to
> > my electricity needs. From my current point of view the main factor is
what
> > kind of motor would be the most suitable. Making steam doesn't seem to
be
> > very difficult. Perhaps I'm just not understanding just how hot and how
> > much pressure we are talking about. In a simple experiment I produced
about
> > 80 psi in a short time using very little water and not all that much
heat.
> > I know that 80 psi can run an air tool and produce over 50 volts at
> > somewhere around 1-2 amps. I don't think I necessarily need to produce
1200
> > degrees F or hundreds of psi just to make one HP.
> >
> > > This knowledge coupled with a general idea of the collector
> > > design/cost could kill your enthusiasm for the whole idea. As I said
> > > in another post a 20' collector may only net you 2 usable hp 5-6 hours
> > > a day.
> >
> > 2 HP will work for me.
> >
> >
> >
> > > If you are a good "scrounger" you could use mirrors but at the end of
> > > the day, I'm not sure how much money you'd save over a sheet metal and
> > > reflective film design.
> >
> > I usually experiment with whatever is laying around and if it looks
> > promising enough I build with the best materials that I can get.
> Pressure vessels are inherently dangerous unless properly designed.
> That said you could do it. However why not consider a monotube or
> flash boiler, ie a length of pipe coiled into whatever shape suits?
> Even if it was to burst, there would be no destructive explosion
> though you could get scalded.
That's the type of thing I had in mind. I can find instructions on how to
build one of those, just not what to connect it to.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_boiler
Posted by Curbie on April 7, 2009, 8:54 pm
My point to that post was there is no need to monkey around with the
dangers of steam temperatures or pressures until you prove the rough
size of the heat collector you need to build, the design costs could
kill your enthusiasm for the whole idea.
Steam harms or kills in two ways 1) a catastrophic failure (boom) or
2) sudden release (steam can an instantly fill a room killing every
organism in it). Remote sensors can eliminate the dangers (if you
never go near a steam operated device), if something fails, shut the
device down, figure out the problem from remote sensor data, clean up
the mess, and rebuild.
My hp output numbers are based on my understanding of parabolic
concentrators and old-time publicly available piston engine steam
data, I have NO clue what the use of a "Solar Bowl" instead of a
parabolic concentrator would do to the output numbers, I don't know
the math, so I've never run those numbers.
The "Solar Bowl" is just an IDEA that on its face could greatly reduce
the cost of heat collection, electricity from Solar Thermal IS bring
done on a large-scale commercial level so whether it can done is not
an issue, to me, the issue is whether you can collect enough heat at
a cost that is practical for home-scale steam. Until that can be
proven for a particular location, details to combine boilers with
receivers is premature and irresponsible on my part.
Curbie
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> > units UNTIL you could demonstrate a through grasp of heat collection
> > for your location, in my opinion, there is no need to monkey around
> > with the dangers of steam temperatures or pressures until you
> > understand parabolics and the rough size of the collector you need to
> > build.
> Well, I'm 56 years old and still have all of my fingers and head parts and
> I've done a lot of things. I'm not a boilermaker but I'm aware of the
> potential hazards and am confident that I could produce steam without
> killing my self otherwise I wouldn't even be discussing it. You mentioned
> in another thread "taking a different approach" and that's what I tend to
> do. Sometimes when something is considered impossible or impractical it may
> simply be under a certain set of circumstances. Several people who's
> opinions I respect have told me that I'm pretty much wasting my time messing
> around with steam however I keep coming back to it as a likely solution to
> my electricity needs. From my current point of view the main factor is what
> kind of motor would be the most suitable. Making steam doesn't seem to be
> very difficult. Perhaps I'm just not understanding just how hot and how
> much pressure we are talking about. In a simple experiment I produced about
> 80 psi in a short time using very little water and not all that much heat.
> I know that 80 psi can run an air tool and produce over 50 volts at
> somewhere around 1-2 amps. I don't think I necessarily need to produce 1200
> degrees F or hundreds of psi just to make one HP.
> > This knowledge coupled with a general idea of the collector
> > design/cost could kill your enthusiasm for the whole idea. As I said
> > in another post a 20' collector may only net you 2 usable hp 5-6 hours
> > a day.
> 2 HP will work for me.
> > If you are a good "scrounger" you could use mirrors but at the end of
> > the day, I'm not sure how much money you'd save over a sheet metal and
> > reflective film design.
> I usually experiment with whatever is laying around and if it looks
> promising enough I build with the best materials that I can get.