Posted by Julie Siebel on April 24, 2004, 7:16 pm
A year or so ago we moved ourselves and our computer graphics biz to
off-grid log cabin in the Idaho panhandle.
Before we moved up here I'd exchanged e-mail with someone at Backwoods
Solar (also in N. Idaho), but quickly realized that until we MOVED
here, I didn't have a clue as to what we needed or even what questions
to ask.
We moved in a year ago April 10th and I still don't know what
questions to ask! I don't want to bug the guys at Backwoods again
until they don't have to translate everything they say to me in words
of two syllables or less.
Our power system consists of the following:
--Six solar panels, each about 18" x 36", wired together in banks of
3.
--Eight big Interstate batteries (about 7 x 16 x 11) that are 10-12
years old.
--A DC Power distribution panel, a battery charge control panel, and a
Marquette charger, all 12+ years old.
--An old Trace Model 612 600watt inverter.
--Back-up power in a Honda 5000w generator (currently used to charge
batteries in the winter, run the well pump, and run dangerous power
tools) and a Yamaha EF1000iS (which I have a lot to say about, but
*no* questions - lol) that is used to run stuff when the sun isn't
shining and/or the batteries aren't charged.
Initial questions are about the equipment.
Solar Panels: I have *no idea* the brand of the current panels (Maybe
Kyocera? There's a Kyocera manual around here somewhere.) I don't know
what the amp/watt ratings are; can you run a meter on these things or
something to figure that out?
Batteries: The batteries don't have a model number - they just say
"Workaholic" on the side. I don't have a clue as to the original
ratings and I'm not sure if they've been maitained properly; I don't
know how to tell their condition nor whether one needs replacing...how
the heck do you find out this stuff? A guy who used to live here told
me they had a 20 year life-span, but most all of the batteries I've
seen are rated 5-15 years.
Inverter/Controllers: The inverter is small - it's capable of running
all of the computer equipment, plus the TV (though generally its just
1 computer and a sat-modem). I'd like to upgrade it at some point so I
don't really have to *think* too much about what I'm plugging into it
(no dangerous power tools, however - lol). Do most mid-range inverters
include the charge control/charger, or am I misreading the specs?
And the real question is, what should be upgraded first? I can't do it
all at once. When I talked to Backwoods, they suggested we upgrade the
inverter, but only if the batteries were sound; if they weren't, then
upgrade the batteries first. After an entire year, I *still* don't
know if the batteries are operating as they are supposed to, because I
don't have anything to compare it with! And since I have no idea what
the solar panels put out, it's kinda hard determine if/when to
upgrade/add-on-to them. (And are solar panels like batteries - have to
be in matched sets - or can you mix them up?)
I'm sure I've included all the wrong information here, but hey, ya
gotta start somewhere. It just seems to me I need to figure out what I
*have* before I can figure out what I *need*.
Thanks for any and all assistance.
Julie Siebel
Posted by Steve Spence on April 24, 2004, 8:44 pm
The folks at backwoods solar are patient and knowledgable. Not everyone here
is. You may get good advice here, but you'll also get loads of bs.
see below for particulars.
--
Steve Spence
Renewable energy and sustainable living
http://www.green-trust.org
Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel
powered diesels at
http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/
> A year or so ago we moved ourselves and our computer graphics biz to
> off-grid log cabin in the Idaho panhandle.
> Before we moved up here I'd exchanged e-mail with someone at Backwoods
> Solar (also in N. Idaho), but quickly realized that until we MOVED
> here, I didn't have a clue as to what we needed or even what questions
> to ask.
> We moved in a year ago April 10th and I still don't know what
> questions to ask! I don't want to bug the guys at Backwoods again
> until they don't have to translate everything they say to me in words
> of two syllables or less.
> Our power system consists of the following:
> --Six solar panels, each about 18" x 36", wired together in banks of
> 3.
arco trilams?
> --Eight big Interstate batteries (about 7 x 16 x 11) that are 10-12
> years old.
thats old
> --A DC Power distribution panel, a battery charge control panel, and a
> Marquette charger, all 12+ years old.
not old, classic ;-)
> --An old Trace Model 612 600watt inverter.
tiny.
> --Back-up power in a Honda 5000w generator (currently used to charge
> batteries in the winter, run the well pump, and run dangerous power
> tools) and a Yamaha EF1000iS (which I have a lot to say about, but
> *no* questions - lol) that is used to run stuff when the sun isn't
> shining and/or the batteries aren't charged.
> Initial questions are about the equipment.
> Solar Panels: I have *no idea* the brand of the current panels (Maybe
> Kyocera? There's a Kyocera manual around here somewhere.) I don't know
> what the amp/watt ratings are; can you run a meter on these things or
> something to figure that out?
Probably around 80 watts, based on dimensions. a volt meter will tell you
voltage output of each panel.
> Batteries: The batteries don't have a model number - they just say
> "Workaholic" on the side. I don't have a clue as to the original
> ratings and I'm not sure if they've been maitained properly; I don't
> know how to tell their condition nor whether one needs replacing...how
> the heck do you find out this stuff? A guy who used to live here told
> me they had a 20 year life-span, but most all of the batteries I've
> seen are rated 5-15 years.
Interstate Workaholic could be anything from a "AA" up to a truck battery.
Look for something that say "ah" (amp hour). If they have caps on top, open
one to look for fluid levels.
> Inverter/Controllers: The inverter is small - it's capable of running
> all of the computer equipment, plus the TV (though generally its just
> 1 computer and a sat-modem). I'd like to upgrade it at some point so I
> don't really have to *think* too much about what I'm plugging into it
> (no dangerous power tools, however - lol). Do most mid-range inverters
> include the charge control/charger, or am I misreading the specs?
the big ones have charge controllers, usually at least 2500 watts with names
like trace, outback, xantrex, etc.
> And the real question is, what should be upgraded first? I can't do it
> all at once. When I talked to Backwoods, they suggested we upgrade the
> inverter, but only if the batteries were sound; if they weren't, then
> upgrade the batteries first. After an entire year, I *still* don't
> know if the batteries are operating as they are supposed to, because I
> don't have anything to compare it with! And since I have no idea what
> the solar panels put out, it's kinda hard determine if/when to
> upgrade/add-on-to them. (And are solar panels like batteries - have to
> be in matched sets - or can you mix them up?)
your batteries are probably near shot. that's a long time for batteries.
check this out:
http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2003/pvsizing/default.htm
> I'm sure I've included all the wrong information here, but hey, ya
> gotta start somewhere. It just seems to me I need to figure out what I
> *have* before I can figure out what I *need*.
some good links:
http://www.xantrex.com/applications/index.asp?did95&p
> Thanks for any and all assistance.
> Julie Siebel
Posted by Jack Hayes on April 24, 2004, 8:48 pm
Do you have a hydrometer? If so, give the batteries a good charge and then
check the S.G. of each cell, if the S.G.'s differ by more than .020 the
batteries either need equalizing or are near the end of their life. If you
don't have a hydrometer then check each cell with a digital voltmeter, again
the difference should be less than .15 volt. At full charge the S.G. should
be about 1.260, if less then try more charging, if the batteries are old
they may not reach 1.260 with prolonged charging. To get a handle on battery
capacity do a load test, after the batteries have been charged as high as
they will go, connect only a known load, a few 12 volt lamps are good, 25
watt lamps will draw about 2 amps, 50 watt about 4 amps, then time how long
it takes for the lowest voltage cell to go down to about 1.7 or 1.8 volts
don't leave the load on long enough that any cell voltage reverses. When the
test is complete take total number of amps that were being drawn times the
number of hours required to reach 1.7 volts, this is approximately the amp
hour capacity of you battery bank. Of course recharge the batteries as soon
as the test is completed. Get back to the group or myself with the results
and we can then move on to other tests and suggestions.
Jack
> A year or so ago we moved ourselves and our computer graphics biz to
> off-grid log cabin in the Idaho panhandle.
> Before we moved up here I'd exchanged e-mail with someone at Backwoods
> Solar (also in N. Idaho), but quickly realized that until we MOVED
> here, I didn't have a clue as to what we needed or even what questions
> to ask.
> We moved in a year ago April 10th and I still don't know what
> questions to ask! I don't want to bug the guys at Backwoods again
> until they don't have to translate everything they say to me in words
> of two syllables or less.
> Our power system consists of the following:
> --Six solar panels, each about 18" x 36", wired together in banks of
> 3.
> --Eight big Interstate batteries (about 7 x 16 x 11) that are 10-12
> years old.
> --A DC Power distribution panel, a battery charge control panel, and a
> Marquette charger, all 12+ years old.
> --An old Trace Model 612 600watt inverter.
> --Back-up power in a Honda 5000w generator (currently used to charge
> batteries in the winter, run the well pump, and run dangerous power
> tools) and a Yamaha EF1000iS (which I have a lot to say about, but
> *no* questions - lol) that is used to run stuff when the sun isn't
> shining and/or the batteries aren't charged.
> Initial questions are about the equipment.
> Solar Panels: I have *no idea* the brand of the current panels (Maybe
> Kyocera? There's a Kyocera manual around here somewhere.) I don't know
> what the amp/watt ratings are; can you run a meter on these things or
> something to figure that out?
> Batteries: The batteries don't have a model number - they just say
> "Workaholic" on the side. I don't have a clue as to the original
> ratings and I'm not sure if they've been maitained properly; I don't
> know how to tell their condition nor whether one needs replacing...how
> the heck do you find out this stuff? A guy who used to live here told
> me they had a 20 year life-span, but most all of the batteries I've
> seen are rated 5-15 years.
> Inverter/Controllers: The inverter is small - it's capable of running
> all of the computer equipment, plus the TV (though generally its just
> 1 computer and a sat-modem). I'd like to upgrade it at some point so I
> don't really have to *think* too much about what I'm plugging into it
> (no dangerous power tools, however - lol). Do most mid-range inverters
> include the charge control/charger, or am I misreading the specs?
> And the real question is, what should be upgraded first? I can't do it
> all at once. When I talked to Backwoods, they suggested we upgrade the
> inverter, but only if the batteries were sound; if they weren't, then
> upgrade the batteries first. After an entire year, I *still* don't
> know if the batteries are operating as they are supposed to, because I
> don't have anything to compare it with! And since I have no idea what
> the solar panels put out, it's kinda hard determine if/when to
> upgrade/add-on-to them. (And are solar panels like batteries - have to
> be in matched sets - or can you mix them up?)
> I'm sure I've included all the wrong information here, but hey, ya
> gotta start somewhere. It just seems to me I need to figure out what I
> *have* before I can figure out what I *need*.
> Thanks for any and all assistance.
> Julie Siebel
Posted by Ecnerwal on April 25, 2004, 12:40 pm
Go to http://www.homepower.com
Order the CDs with all the back issues on them. Quite a good deal for
the amount of hands-on practical information.
You can also download the current issue (for free), but having the old
ones to refer to will give you enough material to dig you out of your
information hole...
--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by
Posted by Steven Shepard on April 27, 2004, 11:24 am
One year old batteries should be OK if you have taken reasonable care of
them. I agree with Backwoods that the inverter is the first place to start
an upgrade but doing so does no good if you don't have the reserve power
capacity from a battery bank capable of driving a larger inverter. This
means you probably should increase the size (quantity) of your battery bank
simultaneously with the inverter replacement. One thing leads to another.
If you increase the size of the battery bank then you need to be sure that
you have the right sized solar array to provide the proper charge to the new
increased battery bank. It is all related and it can be difficult to do one
and not the other.
Good luck.
--
Our new address is:
SBT Designs
25581 IH-10 West
San Antonio, Texas 78257
210-698-7109
FAX: 210-698-7147
www.sbtdesigns.com
--
Our new address is:
SBT Designs
25581 IH-10 West
San Antonio, Texas 78257
210-698-7109
FAX: 210-698-7147
www.sbtdesigns.com
> A year or so ago we moved ourselves and our computer graphics biz to
> off-grid log cabin in the Idaho panhandle.
> Before we moved up here I'd exchanged e-mail with someone at Backwoods
> Solar (also in N. Idaho), but quickly realized that until we MOVED
> here, I didn't have a clue as to what we needed or even what questions
> to ask.
> We moved in a year ago April 10th and I still don't know what
> questions to ask! I don't want to bug the guys at Backwoods again
> until they don't have to translate everything they say to me in words
> of two syllables or less.
> Our power system consists of the following:
> --Six solar panels, each about 18" x 36", wired together in banks of
> 3.
> --Eight big Interstate batteries (about 7 x 16 x 11) that are 10-12
> years old.
> --A DC Power distribution panel, a battery charge control panel, and a
> Marquette charger, all 12+ years old.
> --An old Trace Model 612 600watt inverter.
> --Back-up power in a Honda 5000w generator (currently used to charge
> batteries in the winter, run the well pump, and run dangerous power
> tools) and a Yamaha EF1000iS (which I have a lot to say about, but
> *no* questions - lol) that is used to run stuff when the sun isn't
> shining and/or the batteries aren't charged.
> Initial questions are about the equipment.
> Solar Panels: I have *no idea* the brand of the current panels (Maybe
> Kyocera? There's a Kyocera manual around here somewhere.) I don't know
> what the amp/watt ratings are; can you run a meter on these things or
> something to figure that out?
> Batteries: The batteries don't have a model number - they just say
> "Workaholic" on the side. I don't have a clue as to the original
> ratings and I'm not sure if they've been maitained properly; I don't
> know how to tell their condition nor whether one needs replacing...how
> the heck do you find out this stuff? A guy who used to live here told
> me they had a 20 year life-span, but most all of the batteries I've
> seen are rated 5-15 years.
> Inverter/Controllers: The inverter is small - it's capable of running
> all of the computer equipment, plus the TV (though generally its just
> 1 computer and a sat-modem). I'd like to upgrade it at some point so I
> don't really have to *think* too much about what I'm plugging into it
> (no dangerous power tools, however - lol). Do most mid-range inverters
> include the charge control/charger, or am I misreading the specs?
> And the real question is, what should be upgraded first? I can't do it
> all at once. When I talked to Backwoods, they suggested we upgrade the
> inverter, but only if the batteries were sound; if they weren't, then
> upgrade the batteries first. After an entire year, I *still* don't
> know if the batteries are operating as they are supposed to, because I
> don't have anything to compare it with! And since I have no idea what
> the solar panels put out, it's kinda hard determine if/when to
> upgrade/add-on-to them. (And are solar panels like batteries - have to
> be in matched sets - or can you mix them up?)
> I'm sure I've included all the wrong information here, but hey, ya
> gotta start somewhere. It just seems to me I need to figure out what I
> *have* before I can figure out what I *need*.
> Thanks for any and all assistance.
> Julie Siebel
XML site map
> off-grid log cabin in the Idaho panhandle.
> Before we moved up here I'd exchanged e-mail with someone at Backwoods
> Solar (also in N. Idaho), but quickly realized that until we MOVED
> here, I didn't have a clue as to what we needed or even what questions
> to ask.
> We moved in a year ago April 10th and I still don't know what
> questions to ask! I don't want to bug the guys at Backwoods again
> until they don't have to translate everything they say to me in words
> of two syllables or less.
> Our power system consists of the following:
> --Six solar panels, each about 18" x 36", wired together in banks of
> 3.