Posted by gomango on October 21, 2008, 11:58 pm
> > ... make sure that you isolate the
> > windings with Good High Insolation Tape, as they will have a significant ...
> "High Insolation"? Only for a solar power setup.
I think silicone will do this job just fine.
Ok, update.....
I spent a good 4 hours studying the design math and theroy of the
banki turbine, and I am now at point where I need to figure out
optimal dia for the end disks. Im going to construct a 12" X 3.3" for
now, just to test things out. Once I get a running turbine, I will
refine the math, and go for a smaller turbine tuned for the actual
measured flow. Who knows. the 12" might do just fine. I would
rather have a 8" turbine that turned much faster than a slow-high
torque turbine. Im still debating this. I did the layout of the
endplate, and cut the buckets for the 12". Now I need to do some
fancy cuting to get the end disks slotted for the buckets. I think
that the nozel will be a bit difficult since the turbine will be
narower than the pipe feeding it, but I think I can manage. The plan
is to use a 3" X 3" square tube to fabricate the nozel from. If any of
you out there have any experiance building a banki turbine, I would
love to share my thinking with you and swap notes.
Posted by Jim Wilkins on October 22, 2008, 8:29 am
> Ok, update.....
> I spent a good 4 hours studying the design math and theroy of the
> banki turbine, and I am now at point where I need to figure out
> optimal dia for the end disks. Im going to construct a 12" X 3.3" for
> now, just to test things out. ...
This sounds like an interesting project. What do you have for machine
tools?
Posted by Ken Maltby on October 27, 2008, 4:35 am
> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 07:43:01 -0700 (PDT), gomango
>>Ok guys,
>>
>>I posted a new one to bring it up in the pages a bit. Im looking for
>>some math help at this point. I did a lot of reading and digging and
>>still have no answer, so I hope someone out there has a close answer
>>for me. I have a 4" smooth pipe, and its 230 feet long. The head in
>>this pipe is 16 feet from the inlet to the discharge. The creek is
>>still dry, so I cant calculate flow. Using basic formulas (that I
>>cant find) is it possible to calculate volume and pressure off of the
>>unknown? What I want to know is how much volume and the velocity if
>>this pipe was running full. There are three 45 degree bends in the
>>pipe to snake it arround the creek, but other than that it is straight
>>and all down hill.
> The simple answer to your questions is "yes" - but in practice the
> bends in the pipe and the actual "pipe loss figure" for your pipe may
> change that.
> However here's a few figures -
> There is a rule of thumb which says "the maximum power for any given
> pipe occurs when the loss of head in the pipe is approx one third of
> the static head". ( I still think its a half, but that's what the
> books say!)
> So in round terms this might occur when the 16 ft (approx 5m) of head
> is reduced to about 10ft (3 m). (You will see I prefer metric units -
> they are so much easier to deal with).
> Now you don't say what SORT of pipe you have - steel and plastic pipes
> have different loss figures.
> I would be good to find a pipe nomograph from the web. I have one in a
> book for steel pipe - but my experience (depite what the books say),
> is that I haven't found smooth steel pipe and plastic pipe to be all
> that different - though steel pipe changes over time as it rusts.
> My nomograph tells me that at somewhere between about 9 - 10 litres
> per sec, you will get about 2 ft of head loss per 100 ft of pipe (yes
> its an American book - ft, inches, pounds etc!).
> So putting this information together, you might expect the maximum
> power at somewhere around 3 m of (net) head and 10 litres per second
> of flow.
> This is around 300 watts of power at the jet.
> If you are lucky/ do everthing as carefuly as possible, this may
> translate to around 150 watts output from you generator.
> If you can do more than 150 watts, its a bonus; but don't count on it.
> Incidentally, a head of only 3m might be a bit hard to utilise.
> A Kaplan turbine (which I have built here for my holiday home) would
> probably improve things - though I have seen a 150mm turgo wheel
> working happily at this head - but it had a specially wound pm
> alternator for direct drive at 24 volts, and 4 one-inch jets.
> If you decide to use a belt drive to gear up the speed, use a toothed
> belt. You could easily lose a quarter of your power in a vee belt.
> You would definitely have lower loss with direct drive.
> I did send a reply to your email earlier, but not sure if you got it.
> Hope this helps
> Eric Sears.
Odd values there.
From my pocket ref:
Using "the Hazen-Williams equation for flow in pipes".
"Feet of Head Loss values are subject to the following
conditions:
a) Pipes carrying clear water at approximately 60 F (15.6 C).
b) Pipes are flowing full.
c) Velocities of water are generally less than 10 feet per second."
For "New Clean" Steel or plastic pipe:
"Head Loss/100 Feet Pipe Due To Friction"
4" Diameter Pipe:
at
30 GPM = 0.1'
40 GPM = 0.1'
50 GPM = 0.2'
60 GPM = 0.3'
70 GPM = 0.3'
80 GPM = 0.4'
90 GPM = 0.5'
100 GPM = 0.7'
150 GPM = 1.4'
200 GPM = 2.4'
250 GPM = 3.6'
300 GPM = 5.1'
400 GPM = 8.6'
500 GPM = 13.0'
600 GPM = 18.3'
700 GPM = 24.3'
800 GPM = 31.1'
900 GPM = 38.6'
1000 GPM = 47.0'
1200 GPM = 65.8'
1500 GPM ™.4'
Luck;
Ken
Posted by Eric Sears on October 28, 2008, 5:59 am
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 03:35:11 -0500, "Ken Maltby"
> Odd values there.
> From my pocket ref:
>Using "the Hazen-Williams equation for flow in pipes".
>"Feet of Head Loss values are subject to the following
>conditions:
>a) Pipes carrying clear water at approximately 60 F (15.6 C).
>b) Pipes are flowing full.
>c) Velocities of water are generally less than 10 feet per second."
>For "New Clean" Steel or plastic pipe:
>"Head Loss/100 Feet Pipe Due To Friction"
>4" Diameter Pipe:
>at
>30 GPM = 0.1'
>40 GPM = 0.1'
>50 GPM = 0.2'
>60 GPM = 0.3'
>70 GPM = 0.3'
>80 GPM = 0.4'
>90 GPM = 0.5'
>100 GPM = 0.7'
>150 GPM = 1.4'
>200 GPM = 2.4'
>250 GPM = 3.6'
>300 GPM = 5.1'
>400 GPM = 8.6'
>500 GPM = 13.0'
>600 GPM = 18.3'
>700 GPM = 24.3'
>800 GPM = 31.1'
>900 GPM = 38.6'
>1000 GPM = 47.0'
>1200 GPM = 65.8'
>1500 GPM ™.4'
>Luck;
> Ken
Ken - thanks for the numbers. I have just been reading some info
about the Hazen-Williams equation and downloading some nomographs.
My figures are in about the same ballpark as your pipe-loss numbers
above - though I agree, I used "mixed" odd units.
However, 10 litres per sec is about 10 x 60 / 4.5 gallons per min =
133 gallons/min. From your table, this incurs a loss of somewhere
approaching 1.4 ft/ 100 ft ( I guessed about 2 - but I tend to err on
the high side, because few pipelines are ideal - eg bends etc).
Interpolating from your table, 2ft/100ft is closer to 170gallons per
minute, or about 12 litres per sec.
But its good to see some other tables.
Thanks
Eric Sears.
> > windings with Good High Insolation Tape, as they will have a significant ...
> "High Insolation"? Only for a solar power setup.