Posted by Ulysses on April 5, 2009, 4:00 pm
> Ulysses wrote:
> > I was looking at air motors and I don't see why some of the vane types
> > couldn't be used with steam. I had one apart a few decades ago (I
> > don't recall what it was being used for but it may have actually been
> > a vacuum pump) and the vanes were some kind of composite resembling
> > fiberglass. The only problem with the motor was the vanes were
> > getting stuck in their grooves and simply needed cleaning and
> > lubrication. I didn't see anything in there that looked like it
> > would be really bothered by expansion due to heat and if it was made
> > out of the right materials the water oxidation wouldn't be much of a
> > problem. So guys, why won't it work?
> Wouldn't fiberglass have a problem with steam temps?
I was thinking perhaps the vanes could be adjusted to compensate for heat
expansion.
Posted by Bob F on April 6, 2009, 4:46 pm
Ulysses wrote:
>> Ulysses wrote:
>>> I was looking at air motors and I don't see why some of the vane
>>> types couldn't be used with steam. I had one apart a few decades
>>> ago (I don't recall what it was being used for but it may have
>>> actually been a vacuum pump) and the vanes were some kind of
>>> composite resembling fiberglass. The only problem with the motor
>>> was the vanes were getting stuck in their grooves and simply needed
>>> cleaning and lubrication. I didn't see anything in there that
>>> looked like it would be really bothered by expansion due to heat
>>> and if it was made out of the right materials the water oxidation
>>> wouldn't be much of a problem. So guys, why won't it work?
>>
>> Wouldn't fiberglass have a problem with steam temps?
> I was thinking perhaps the vanes could be adjusted to compensate for
> heat expansion.
I was thinking more along the line of getting soft as they get warm, with
resulting deformation and wear.
Posted by Ulysses on April 7, 2009, 4:52 pm
> Ulysses wrote:
> >> Ulysses wrote:
> >>> I was looking at air motors and I don't see why some of the vane
> >>> types couldn't be used with steam. I had one apart a few decades
> >>> ago (I don't recall what it was being used for but it may have
> >>> actually been a vacuum pump) and the vanes were some kind of
> >>> composite resembling fiberglass. The only problem with the motor
> >>> was the vanes were getting stuck in their grooves and simply needed
> >>> cleaning and lubrication. I didn't see anything in there that
> >>> looked like it would be really bothered by expansion due to heat
> >>> and if it was made out of the right materials the water oxidation
> >>> wouldn't be much of a problem. So guys, why won't it work?
> >>
> >> Wouldn't fiberglass have a problem with steam temps?
> >
> > I was thinking perhaps the vanes could be adjusted to compensate for
> > heat expansion.
> I was thinking more along the line of getting soft as they get warm, with
> resulting deformation and wear.
Well, from what I've seen they are easily replaced and many different
materials could be tried. Perhaps stainless steel would work.
Posted by Richard W. on April 7, 2009, 7:27 pm
>> Ulysses wrote:
>> >> Ulysses wrote:
>> >>> I was looking at air motors and I don't see why some of the vane
>> >>> types couldn't be used with steam. I had one apart a few decades
>> >>> ago (I don't recall what it was being used for but it may have
>> >>> actually been a vacuum pump) and the vanes were some kind of
>> >>> composite resembling fiberglass. The only problem with the motor
>> >>> was the vanes were getting stuck in their grooves and simply needed
>> >>> cleaning and lubrication. I didn't see anything in there that
>> >>> looked like it would be really bothered by expansion due to heat
>> >>> and if it was made out of the right materials the water oxidation
>> >>> wouldn't be much of a problem. So guys, why won't it work?
>> >>
>> >> Wouldn't fiberglass have a problem with steam temps?
>> >
>> > I was thinking perhaps the vanes could be adjusted to compensate for
>> > heat expansion.
>>
>> I was thinking more along the line of getting soft as they get warm, with
>> resulting deformation and wear.
>>
>>
> Well, from what I've seen they are easily replaced and many different
> materials could be tried. Perhaps stainless steel would work.
>>
Vane motors have the tendency to self destruct, because of the vane being
thrown out to against the wall of the motor. They use vane pumps for
compressing air mixed with oil. This is done by injecting oil on the air
intake of the vane type compressor. Then a special filter is used to remove
the oil from the air, so that you don't have a bunch of oil running out of
your air tools. That's why plastic is often used in vane motors. I wears out
the case at a slower rate.
There are radial air motors available, but I don't know how they would
work with steam. I have seen radial type air motors that you could slow down
so much that they barely turn over. Yet because of the multiple cylinders
have a fair amount of torque. We had one on the carriage of a big 54" swing
lathe. We used it for a rapid traverse. The carriage was so big you often
stood on it. It must have weighed over a ton.
The benefit of steam is that after running an engine the waste steam can be
used to heat a house at low pressure. Thus giving you both heat and power,
which offsets the cost of fuel. Also the fuel could be anything from coal,
oil, fire wood, paper or straw. A lot of the old steam tractors had boilers
built for using straw for fuel. This was a popular option in grain growing
areas where trees were scarce.
I think that a Mike Brown steam engine would be the way to go if funds
weren't an issue to you.
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/mbsteam.htm
Richard W.
Posted by Ulysses on April 8, 2009, 5:03 pm
> >
> >> Ulysses wrote:
> >> >> Ulysses wrote:
> >> >>> I was looking at air motors and I don't see why some of the vane
> >> >>> types couldn't be used with steam. I had one apart a few decades
> >> >>> ago (I don't recall what it was being used for but it may have
> >> >>> actually been a vacuum pump) and the vanes were some kind of
> >> >>> composite resembling fiberglass. The only problem with the motor
> >> >>> was the vanes were getting stuck in their grooves and simply needed
> >> >>> cleaning and lubrication. I didn't see anything in there that
> >> >>> looked like it would be really bothered by expansion due to heat
> >> >>> and if it was made out of the right materials the water oxidation
> >> >>> wouldn't be much of a problem. So guys, why won't it work?
> >> >>
> >> >> Wouldn't fiberglass have a problem with steam temps?
> >> >
> >> > I was thinking perhaps the vanes could be adjusted to compensate for
> >> > heat expansion.
> >>
> >> I was thinking more along the line of getting soft as they get warm,
with
> >> resulting deformation and wear.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Well, from what I've seen they are easily replaced and many different
> > materials could be tried. Perhaps stainless steel would work.
> >>
> >
> >
> Vane motors have the tendency to self destruct, because of the vane being
> thrown out to against the wall of the motor. They use vane pumps for
> compressing air mixed with oil. This is done by injecting oil on the air
> intake of the vane type compressor. Then a special filter is used to
remove
> the oil from the air, so that you don't have a bunch of oil running out of
> your air tools. That's why plastic is often used in vane motors. I wears
out
> the case at a slower rate.
> There are radial air motors available, but I don't know how they would
> work with steam. I have seen radial type air motors that you could slow
down
> so much that they barely turn over. Yet because of the multiple cylinders
> have a fair amount of torque. We had one on the carriage of a big 54"
swing
> lathe. We used it for a rapid traverse. The carriage was so big you often
> stood on it. It must have weighed over a ton.
> The benefit of steam is that after running an engine the waste steam can
be
> used to heat a house at low pressure. Thus giving you both heat and power,
> which offsets the cost of fuel. Also the fuel could be anything from coal,
> oil, fire wood, paper or straw. A lot of the old steam tractors had
boilers
> built for using straw for fuel. This was a popular option in grain growing
> areas where trees were scarce.
> I think that a Mike Brown steam engine would be the way to go if funds
> weren't an issue to you.
> http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/mbsteam.htm
> Richard W.
I have looked at those in the past. $400 for 3 HP does seem like it would
take a long time to break even compared to using gasoline and generators.
Whenever I think about buying solarvoltaic panels I just remind myself how
much gasoline $0,000 will buy.
I found a web site that I think was in India for a company that was
apparently selling steam engines and boilers for rural use. The boiler
resembled two automotive type radiators forming an A-Frame. There was
little info on the web site but it appeared that the boiler was designed to
have a wood fire built under it. I lost the site but now I think I'll go
look for it again.
> > I was looking at air motors and I don't see why some of the vane types
> > couldn't be used with steam. I had one apart a few decades ago (I
> > don't recall what it was being used for but it may have actually been
> > a vacuum pump) and the vanes were some kind of composite resembling
> > fiberglass. The only problem with the motor was the vanes were
> > getting stuck in their grooves and simply needed cleaning and
> > lubrication. I didn't see anything in there that looked like it
> > would be really bothered by expansion due to heat and if it was made
> > out of the right materials the water oxidation wouldn't be much of a
> > problem. So guys, why won't it work?
> Wouldn't fiberglass have a problem with steam temps?