Posted by harry on September 23, 2009, 6:29 pm
> > The days of cheap electricty are numbered.
> Cheap? It has always been expensive.
It's cheap compared to what it will be!
Posted by harry on August 8, 2009, 6:24 pm
wrote:
> I guess nobody told Nissan yet huh? They just announced a mass-market
> electric
car:http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/aug/02/nissan-unveils-electri ...
> > The answer is simple. When everyone gets home from work and plugs
> > them in, the lights will go out. Throughout the country.
> No, you got that 100% wrong. Grid capacity is one reason why electric cars
> are unlikely to become ubiquitous any time soon. Our present grids can
> easily support millions of electric vehicles, particularly in off-peak
> hours..
> > I suppose the effect could be moderated if there were charging points
> > at work but then who's going to pay for that?
> What? You want cars to charge during peak load hours? Really?
> > Super/ultra capacitors would make things even worse.
> How so? Just because supercaps CAN be charged quickly does not mean that we
> MUST charge them quickly.
> > Also the gov in the UK is making a fortune out of fuel taxation, how
> > are they gonna tax your fuel for your electric car?
> Don't worry, the bureaucracy will figure that one out!
> > I'd buy an electric car if it had a range of say 100 miles when the
> > battery was new. I could manage as it deteriorated to say 30 miles.
> > ( but only for 95% of the time.)
> I might be a customer also, but it would depend a lot on the price and
> operating expense of the vehicle compared to its capabilities/limitations.
> Strangely, now that I am retired and my transportation needs have become
> simpler, I find that an electric car may not be a good match. First, I no
> longer have need for a second car so I would be stuck 100% with the electric
> car's limitations. Second, since I now drive fewer miles, I now have less
> economic incentive to invest money to lower my transportation costs.
> > And if it was the same price or thereabouts as conventional car.
> > And if I could get a big solar panel too charge it for a reasonable
> > price.
> You are confusing transportation expenses with energy expenses. If it were
> cheaper to charge our electric cars from solar panels, then it would also be
> cheaper to run our homes from solar panels. So if solar panels were
> suddenly much less expensive than today, we would all buy them and connect
> them to the grid with net metering.
> Further, it will be most convenient to charge most electric vehicles at
> night; exactly the time when solar panels are quite usless!
> > Nope, it ain't gonna happen. What will happen is that we'll all be
> > back (in my case) on the buses and trains.
> I agree that it is unlikely to happen anytime soon, but we seem to differ
> greatly on the reasons.
> Regards
> Vaughn
Peak time is exactly when people get home from work. Turn on the
microwave, the TV, the coffee percolator, the lights, the heating --
plus now plug in the car...No way. In the UK there might be ten
million cars. All drawing 4-5Kw?
The "valley time" is after midnight when people go to bed. There would
be the only chance.
I used to work for the electricity board (power company) and I can
tell you the system would never stand it.
A solar panel would be fine for me as I'm retired & never dream of
travelling at peak traffic times. I only use my car a couple of times
a week.
Posted by vaughn on August 8, 2009, 6:45 pm
> Peak time is exactly when people get home from work. Turn on the
> microwave, the TV, the coffee percolator, the lights, the heating --
> plus now plug in the car.
Yes, but there is no reason to start charging just then. It is a small
matter to put a timer on a charger, or even a controller so the power
company can turn it on. You can be sure that if we ever get sufficient
electric cars on the grid to cause a problem, we will all get time-sensitive
power pricing.
> The "valley time" is after midnight when people go to bed. There would
> be the only chance.
Agreed, that that is also a pretty convenient time for most of us.
> A solar panel would be fine for me as I'm retired & never dream of
> travelling at peak traffic times. I only use my car a couple of times
> a week.
Again, you are confusing power costs with transportation costs. If solar
power were cheaper than grid power, we would all have solar systems now,
electric car or not!
Vaughn.
Posted by harry on August 9, 2009, 6:58 pm
wrote:
> > Peak time is exactly when people get home from work. Turn on the
> > microwave, the TV, the coffee percolator, the lights, the heating --
> > plus now plug in the car.
> Yes, but there is no reason to start charging just then. It is a small
> matter to put a timer on a charger, or even a controller so the power
> company can turn it on. You can be sure that if we ever get sufficient
> electric cars on the grid to cause a problem, we will all get time-sensitive
> power pricing.
> > The "valley time" is after midnight when people go to bed. There would
> > be the only chance.
> Agreed, that that is also a pretty convenient time for most of us.
> > A solar panel would be fine for me as I'm retired & never dream of
> > travelling at peak traffic times. I only use my car a couple of times
> > a week.
> Again, you are confusing power costs with transportation costs. If solar
> power were cheaper than grid power, we would all have solar systems now,
> electric car or not!
> Vaughn.
I would only need a small panel as for most of the time I only use the
car once or twice a week, (20 miles or so) it could be on charge for
the rest of the time.
I did look into all the cost of a PV panel to cover my entire roof
which is ideally orientated. At that time it would have cost 17000
& there was a 50% gov grant. Even so it would have taken 25 years to
pay back at the present day elect. prices. Who knows where elect.
prices will be in a few years though it can only be up. It was hard
to work out how much electricty I could export & how much I would use
from the panel & how much I would have to import.
Also there is big debate here (UK) on forcing the power companies to
pay a premium rate for "green electricity" they bought in. So I don't
know how much I'd get. (Peanuts at the moment.)
Posted by Robert Copcutt on September 11, 2009, 6:15 pm
harry wrote:
> Also there is big debate here (UK) on forcing the power companies to
> pay a premium rate for "green electricity" they bought in. So I don't
> know how much I'd get. (Peanuts at the moment.)
I have heard that the talk is of setting it at 36p per kWh. At that
level and at the rate PV prices are dropping it will not be long before
it becomes a money saving investment to buy PV, even without a grant.
--
http://www.copcutt.me.uk/
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> Cheap? It has always been expensive.