Posted by Scottish Scientist on July 7, 2019, 1:49 pm
On Sunday, 7 July 2019 13:51:05 UTC+1, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> This state makes good use of alternate sources including micro hydro,
> several productive wind farms and wood-fueled electric generators. I'm
> in a forest of 80~100' oaks on the downwind side of a ridge. The site
> provides plentiful free firewood and logs for my home made sawmill but
> little wind and restricted sun. To use my solar panels effectively I
> have to set them on the lawn and move them to dodge tree shadows, so
> they are only good for tests and emergency power outages which can
> last a week here in summer hurricane and winter ice storm country.
> Their folding support legs are Vs made from electrical conduit.
>
> These can be used for an inexpensive DIY datalogger for alternate
> energy systems.
> https://tekpower.us/tp4000zc.html
> The optical isolation avoids common mode (and short circuit) problems
> between voltage and current channels and the batteries can be
> rechargeable AAs. I use an old laptop with added serial port cards to
> read them because it runs on low power DC and I can read the COM ports
> but not USB in DOS/QBasic programs, thus avoiding Windows port polling
> interference and allowing me to use all bits of the parallel port for
> digital I/O. There are also USB versions of the meters if you don't
> want to program control outputs. The separate datalog files can be
> combined in a spreadsheet by aligning the timestamps.
>
> I think the meters are better suited to PWM than MPPT controllers. The
> panel output, controller output and battery in/out power meters don't
> agree very well when running the MPPT.
>
> Grid-tied solar without batteries is common here but stand-alone
> systems like I built appear to be practical for daily use only in
> remote locations. DC-powered refrigerators for them are either very
> expensive or of questionable reliability, like my Alpicool.
> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Alpicool&ref=bl_dp_s_web_0
>
> It does have the advantage of not needing a pure sine inverter
> constantly drawing on the battery.
From page 20 of this
"A 100% Renewable Energy Strategy for
New Hampshire’s Future"
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/nhpr/files/2018_white_paper_master_v
ers_3.pdf
"In New Hampshire at present there is 185 MW of onshore wind power capacity
and with approximately 405 GWh in annual generation from five wind farms.
...
There is an estimated additional capacity of between 990 MW and 12,528 MW o
f
technical potential for terrestrial (onshore) wind power in the state. The
wide
range in the numbers for the wind capacity results are dependent on the hub
height of the turbines. This additional capacity could provide electricity
to
between 300,000 and as many as 2 million homes."
When NH has the potential for up to 12,500 MW of wind power but only have d
eveloped 185 MW or 1.5% of the total possible then that's not yet "making g
ood use" of New Hampshire's wind power, not even close.
You don't have ANY grid connection where you are Jim? You are already off-g
rid, like or not?
How do you generate most of your power then - diesel generator?
Could you cut down your trees to feed a wood-fuelled electric generator, at
least until you have cleared enough space to save you from having to move
your solar panels around and then there would be some point in investing in
more solar panels?
What about the top of your ridge to put up a few wind turbines, to help wit
h your winter power especially?
If there is a good windy spot uphill but it is not your land perhaps you co
uld make a deal with a neighbour, maybe a shared wind power enterprise prov
iding power for both you and him? Invite him for a beer and suggest it.
Posted by Jim Wilkins on July 7, 2019, 3:48 pm
On Sunday, 7 July 2019 13:51:05 UTC+1, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> This state makes good use of alternate sources including micro
> hydro,
> several productive wind farms and wood-fueled electric generators.
> I'm
> in a forest of 80~100' oaks on the downwind side of a ridge. The
> site
> provides plentiful free firewood and logs for my home made sawmill
> but
> little wind and restricted sun. To use my solar panels effectively I
> have to set them on the lawn and move them to dodge tree shadows, so
> they are only good for tests and emergency power outages which can
> last a week here in summer hurricane and winter ice storm country.
> Their folding support legs are Vs made from electrical conduit.
>
> These can be used for an inexpensive DIY datalogger for alternate
> energy systems.
> https://tekpower.us/tp4000zc.html
> The optical isolation avoids common mode (and short circuit)
> problems
> between voltage and current channels and the batteries can be
> rechargeable AAs. I use an old laptop with added serial port cards
> to
> read them because it runs on low power DC and I can read the COM
> ports
> but not USB in DOS/QBasic programs, thus avoiding Windows port
> polling
> interference and allowing me to use all bits of the parallel port
> for
> digital I/O. There are also USB versions of the meters if you don't
> want to program control outputs. The separate datalog files can be
> combined in a spreadsheet by aligning the timestamps.
>
> I think the meters are better suited to PWM than MPPT controllers.
> The
> panel output, controller output and battery in/out power meters
> don't
> agree very well when running the MPPT.
>
> Grid-tied solar without batteries is common here but stand-alone
> systems like I built appear to be practical for daily use only in
> remote locations. DC-powered refrigerators for them are either very
> expensive or of questionable reliability, like my Alpicool.
> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Alpicool&ref=bl_dp_s_web_0
>
> It does have the advantage of not needing a pure sine inverter
> constantly drawing on the battery.
From page 20 of this
"A 100% Renewable Energy Strategy for
New Hampshire's Future"
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/nhpr/files/2018_white_paper_master_vers_3.pdf
"In New Hampshire at present there is 185 MW of onshore wind power
capacity
and with approximately 405 GWh in annual generation from five wind
farms.
...
There is an estimated additional capacity of between 990 MW and 12,528
MW of
technical potential for terrestrial (onshore) wind power in the state.
The wide
range in the numbers for the wind capacity results are dependent on
the hub
height of the turbines. This additional capacity could provide
electricity to
between 300,000 and as many as 2 million homes."
When NH has the potential for up to 12,500 MW of wind power but only
have developed 185 MW or 1.5% of the total possible then that's not
yet "making good use" of New Hampshire's wind power, not even close.
--------------------------------
The Greenies who demand action on climate change oppose
power-producing dams that hinder fish migration, unsightly
bird-killing windmills offshore or on scenic ridge lines,
http://www.nhwindwatch.org/
biomass power plants,
https://www.pfpi.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PFPI-biomass-factsheet.pdf
and have effectively blocked a Canadian hydro power transmission line.
https://www.notonorthernpass.com/
I'm preparing for the resulting brownouts.
--------------------------------
You don't have ANY grid connection where you are Jim? You are already
off-grid, like or not?
How do you generate most of your power then - diesel generator?
Could you cut down your trees to feed a wood-fuelled electric
generator, at least until you have cleared enough space to save you
from having to move your solar panels around and then there would be
some point in investing in more solar panels?
What about the top of your ridge to put up a few wind turbines, to
help with your winter power especially?
If there is a good windy spot uphill but it is not your land perhaps
you could make a deal with a neighbour, maybe a shared wind power
enterprise providing power for both you and him? Invite him for a beer
and suggest it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm in town, on grid, paying $.18 per KWH which I can't beat with
alternate sources. As for a windmill the cost of 2x 200 meters of
thick code-compliant wire to reach the hilltop and a 40 meter tower to
clear the trees (and attract lightning) greatly exceeds any possible
payback, plus kids party up there and the owner is a real estate
developer who only reluctantly granted access to remove dead wood.
Unattended copper doesn't last long around here, vacant houses are
stripped of it.
Wire is already a considerable fraction of my solar investment. I've
tried CCA as a substitute for copper but I don't trust connections in
it, having witnessed an aluminum-wired breaker box explosion
uncomfortably near my desk .It may be acceptable for high power car
stereos but not as permanent house wiring.
Posted by Scottish Scientist on July 7, 2019, 12:05 pm
On Sunday, 7 July 2019 00:27:15 UTC+1, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> Where I live in New Hampshire, USA the average wind is under 10 kts,
> wood stove smoke often rises vertically. Temps run from -20C in winter
> (-40C,F in northern NH) to the mid to upper 30's C / high 90's to 100F
> in summer.
>
> Today's high was 34C and the dewpoint is presently at 24C, which is
> tropically miserable, and this is the cooler northern edge of the USA.
>
> It's hard to do without at least a window air conditioner. Mine, the
> smallest commonly available, draws 350 Watts for about 4 - 6 hours a
> night during heat waves. The starting surge is too much for my sine
> inverter so it has to run on grid or generator power. I haven't seen a
> Danfoss/Secomp type air conditioner for sale here though I have a
> DC-powered fridge/freezer.
>
> We can easily have a week of thick overcast that drops my solar panel
> output to less than 10% of capacity. Under these conditions, and
> considering the cost of battery depreciation with cycling or just age,
> solar power doesn't quite break even.
>
> I pay USD $.18 per KWH for grid power. If my $20, 12V, 105Ah
> batteries meet the maker's 500 cycle lifetime spec they raise the cost
> of "free" solar electricity to ~$.20 per KWH. Shallower discharges
> require more batteries and per the charts I've seen don't increase the
> total number of KWH stored and delivered over the battery's lifetime.
>
> I haven't considered cheaper used batteries here because my sources
> for them are uncertain and their condition has proven too variable.
Well your window air conditioner drawing 350 watts for 6 hours uses 2,100 W
att-hours.
However, to use the Wind, solar, storage and back-up system designer you ne
ed to work out your TOTAL daily energy usage.
So that's the 2,100 Wh from your window air conditioner plus the energy con
sumed by every other electrical device you are using throughout the day - l
ighting, fridge and freezer, kettles, cooker, power tools - everything.
I presume that you must have an electric meter so it is not too hard to not
e the reading on the meter at a certain time of the day and then note the r
eading the same time the next day to find out how much electrical energy yo
u have used in a typical day.
Then you need to add a bit for worst possible scenarios to get your maximum
daily usage in Watt-hours, or KiloWatt-hours and I am guessing that is goi
ng to be much, much more than 2,100 hours - like 10, 15 or 20 times more.
"In 2017, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential
utility customer was 10,399 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of 867 kWh per
month. Louisiana had the highest annual electricity consumption at 14,242
kWh per residential customer, and Hawaii had the lowest at 6,074 kWh per re
sidential customer."
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id&t=3
So that's an average daily electricity consumption or usage of 28.5 KiloWat
t-Hours or 28,500 Watt-hours or more than TEN TIMES more than your window a
ir conditioner uses of an evening.
So either you are very frugal with your electricity usage or your window ai
r conditioner is the least of your electricity consumption worries, Jim.
Let's just assume that a New Hampshire residential utility customer's maxim
um daily usage was worked out to be 40 KiloWatt-Hours and for that max usag
e the customer wanted to construct a solar power system to supply that powe
r in the summer.
So for that customer requirement, the Wind, solar, storage and back-up syst
em designer, "Off-grid daily usage Focus Table" can be seen at this link.
http://scottish.scienceontheweb.net/Wind%20power%20storage%20back-up%20calc
ulator.htm?usage@&units=kw&spc0&scf#off
As you can see, I have assumed a solar capacity factor for the New Hampshir
e summer of 16% - but that's just my guess. You would need to research your
own solar capacity factor for yourself.
The rows of the table offer different configuration depending on how much b
ack-up power you can use.
Row A is if you are going totally off-grid and never want to use a back-up
generator either so you have no back-up power whatsoever.
Wind, solar, storage and back-up system designer
Configuration text page.
Daily Usage of Energy: 40 KWh
Solar Power Capacity: 28 KW
Solar Capacity Factor: 16%
Solar energy per day (average): 108 KWh
Storage Energy Capacity: 96 KWh
Back-up power: 0 KW
But that's very expensive in terms of solar panels and batteries so then yo
u might consider the last row in table, row H, looking for a much cheaper o
ption using a back-up generator.
Wind, solar, storage and back-up system designer
Configuration text page.
Daily Usage of Energy: 40 KWh
Solar Power Capacity: 4 KW
Solar Capacity Factor: 16%
Solar energy per day (average): 15.4 KWh
Storage Energy Capacity: 13.4 KWh
Back-up power: 1.49 KW
But for that you need at least a 1.5 KW back-up generator and you might be
using it a lot of the time.
> I pay USD $.18 per KWH for grid power. If my $20, 12V, 105Ah
A 12V, 105Ah battery is 12V x 105A h = 1260 Watt-hour or 1.26 KWh battery
.
So 11 of those 1.26 KWh batteries would give you 13.8 KWh of energy storage
, enough for a row H configuration 40 KWh daily usage configuration.
77 of those batteries would give you 97 KWh of energy storage, enough for a
row A 40 KWh configuration.
So it takes a lot more investment than you might think to go off-grid and s
till enjoy the same electricity as someone on the grid.
I just provide the advice, not the money to pay for it all. LOL.
By the way, I live on the grid, in the inner-city, where there is no room f
or all the solar panels I would need anyway.
Posted by Jim Wilkins on July 7, 2019, 2:27 pm
On Sunday, 7 July 2019 00:27:15 UTC+1, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> Where I live in New Hampshire, USA the average wind is under 10 kts,
> wood stove smoke often rises vertically. Temps run from -20C in
> winter
> (-40C,F in northern NH) to the mid to upper 30's C / high 90's to
> 100F
> in summer.
>
> Today's high was 34C and the dewpoint is presently at 24C, which is
> tropically miserable, and this is the cooler northern edge of the
> USA.
>
> It's hard to do without at least a window air conditioner. Mine, the
> smallest commonly available, draws 350 Watts for about 4 - 6 hours a
> night during heat waves. The starting surge is too much for my sine
> inverter so it has to run on grid or generator power. I haven't seen
> a
> Danfoss/Secomp type air conditioner for sale here though I have a
> DC-powered fridge/freezer.
>
> We can easily have a week of thick overcast that drops my solar
> panel
> output to less than 10% of capacity. Under these conditions, and
> considering the cost of battery depreciation with cycling or just
> age,
> solar power doesn't quite break even.
>
> I pay USD $.18 per KWH for grid power. If my $20, 12V, 105Ah
> batteries meet the maker's 500 cycle lifetime spec they raise the
> cost
> of "free" solar electricity to ~$.20 per KWH. Shallower discharges
> require more batteries and per the charts I've seen don't increase
> the
> total number of KWH stored and delivered over the battery's
> lifetime.
>
> I haven't considered cheaper used batteries here because my sources
> for them are uncertain and their condition has proven too variable.
Well your window air conditioner drawing 350 watts for 6 hours uses
2,100 Watt-hours.
However, to use the Wind, solar, storage and back-up system designer
you need to work out your TOTAL daily energy usage.
So that's the 2,100 Wh from your window air conditioner plus the
energy consumed by every other electrical device you are using
throughout the day - lighting, fridge and freezer, kettles, cooker,
power tools - everything.
I presume that you must have an electric meter so it is not too hard
to note the reading on the meter at a certain time of the day and then
note the reading the same time the next day to find out how much
electrical energy you have used in a typical day.
Then you need to add a bit for worst possible scenarios to get your
maximum daily usage in Watt-hours, or KiloWatt-hours and I am guessing
that is going to be much, much more than 2,100 hours - like 10, 15 or
20 times more.
"In 2017, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S.
residential utility customer was 10,399 kilowatthours (kWh), an
average of 867 kWh per month. Louisiana had the highest annual
electricity consumption at 14,242 kWh per residential customer, and
Hawaii had the lowest at 6,074 kWh per residential customer."
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id&t=3
So that's an average daily electricity consumption or usage of 28.5
KiloWatt-Hours or 28,500 Watt-hours or more than TEN TIMES more than
your window air conditioner uses of an evening.
So either you are very frugal with your electricity usage or your
window air conditioner is the least of your electricity consumption
worries, Jim.
-----------------------
For decades I've averaged 120 KWH per month, 4 KWH per day, unless the
weather is very hot or I have a large machining and arc welding
project like building the sawmill in progress. I pay attention to
electricity consumption but I don't suffer for it.
So far this summer my A/C has cost $.93 according to a Kill-A-Watt
P4460. The compact Magic Chef refrigerator's P4460 reports $.09 a
month.
"So it takes a lot more investment than you might think to go off-grid
and still enjoy the same electricity as someone on the grid."
When I decided to try solar that calculation prompted me to monitor my
consumption and see how much was really necessary. The electric
clothes dryer jumped out as a large waste easily replaced with a
clothesline. I replaced >200W desktops with 35W laptops, mainly to
reduce UPS cost. A smaller fridge and no separate freezer saved over
$0 a month. A weather station that shows indoor and outdoor
temperature and humidity tells when to open the windows at night
instead of running the A/C. I use 3% = 1F to mentally estimate if
blowing in cooler but higher RH outside air will help or hurt indoor
comfort. It's not exact but easy and close enough over the narrow
range where the answer isn't obvious.
Posted by Scottish Scientist on July 7, 2019, 3:15 pm
On Sunday, 7 July 2019 15:26:01 UTC+1, Jim Wilkins wrote:
-----------------------
>
> For decades I've averaged 120 KWH per month, 4 KWH per day, unless the
> weather is very hot or I have a large machining and arc welding
> project like building the sawmill in progress. I pay attention to
> electricity consumption but I don't suffer for it.
>
> So far this summer my A/C has cost $.93 according to a Kill-A-Watt
> P4460. The compact Magic Chef refrigerator's P4460 reports $.09 a
> month.
>
> "So it takes a lot more investment than you might think to go off-grid
> and still enjoy the same electricity as someone on the grid."
>
> When I decided to try solar that calculation prompted me to monitor my
> consumption and see how much was really necessary. The electric
> clothes dryer jumped out as a large waste easily replaced with a
> clothesline. I replaced >200W desktops with 35W laptops, mainly to
> reduce UPS cost. A smaller fridge and no separate freezer saved over
> $0 a month. A weather station that shows indoor and outdoor
> temperature and humidity tells when to open the windows at night
> instead of running the A/C. I use 3% = 1F to mentally estimate if
> blowing in cooler but higher RH outside air will help or hurt indoor
> comfort. It's not exact but easy and close enough over the narrow
> range where the answer isn't obvious.
So, on the one hand you say -
> I pay USD $.18 per KWH for grid power.
- which suggests you are on the grid.
On the other hand, you say -
> emergency power outages which can
> last a week here in summer hurricane and winter ice storm country.
and
> stand-alone systems like I built
- which suggest that occasionally you are forced to go off-grid, but mostly are on the grid.
Then you tell me you are only using an average of 4KWh a day, which is a tiny amount of juice for someone on the grid.
I live very modestly in the inner city and consume 15KWh a day.
Cutting usage down to 4KWh a day while you are forced off-grid because of power outages is understandable. Why invest in a huge off-grid generation capacity if it is only going to be used for a few weeks a year?
But why would anyone want to cut their usage down to 4KWh a day while they are ON the grid and could have 40KWh a day no problem?
Are you on a very low income Jim - you seem like a smart guy who could earn a good wage - or do you just have a bit of a fetish for low energy usage?
Tell me to mind my own business if you like.
The Wind, solar, storage and back-up system designer will help you to design a system to generate any maximum of KWh a day that you need. Just beware that in the Off-grid daily usage focus table the daily usage (max) is a maximum figure.
You just need to adjust the values in the tables to suit. The tables are fully user adjustable like a spreadsheet.
There's the off-grid table for 4KWh maximum daily usage and 8% solar capacity factor.
http://scottish.scienceontheweb.net/Wind%20power%20storage%20back-up%20calculator.htm?usage=4&units=kw&spc 0&scf=8#off
Here's the text configuration page for row D.
Wind, solar, storage and back-up system designer
Configuration text page.
Daily Usage of Energy: 4 KWh
Solar Power Capacity: 2.64 KW
Solar Capacity Factor: 8%
Solar energy per day (average): 5.07 KWh
Storage Energy Capacity: 4.48 KWh
Back-up power: 0.093 KW
So 3KW of solar panels, 4 of your 12V105Ah batteries and a 100 Watt generator if you can find one that small, would do that, if that's all you need to get you through your power outages?
But follow the link and adjust the daily usage (max) to 5KWh or 10KWh and see if you like those numbers better.
Breaks my heart to design you a system that generates so little power. ;) LOL.
XML site map
> This state makes good use of alternate sources including micro hydro,
> several productive wind farms and wood-fueled electric generators. I'm
> in a forest of 80~100' oaks on the downwind side of a ridge. The site
> provides plentiful free firewood and logs for my home made sawmill but
> little wind and restricted sun. To use my solar panels effectively I
> have to set them on the lawn and move them to dodge tree shadows, so
> they are only good for tests and emergency power outages which can
> last a week here in summer hurricane and winter ice storm country.
> Their folding support legs are Vs made from electrical conduit.
>
> These can be used for an inexpensive DIY datalogger for alternate
> energy systems.
> https://tekpower.us/tp4000zc.html
> The optical isolation avoids common mode (and short circuit) problems
> between voltage and current channels and the batteries can be
> rechargeable AAs. I use an old laptop with added serial port cards to
> read them because it runs on low power DC and I can read the COM ports
> but not USB in DOS/QBasic programs, thus avoiding Windows port polling
> interference and allowing me to use all bits of the parallel port for
> digital I/O. There are also USB versions of the meters if you don't
> want to program control outputs. The separate datalog files can be
> combined in a spreadsheet by aligning the timestamps.
>
> I think the meters are better suited to PWM than MPPT controllers. The
> panel output, controller output and battery in/out power meters don't
> agree very well when running the MPPT.
>
> Grid-tied solar without batteries is common here but stand-alone
> systems like I built appear to be practical for daily use only in
> remote locations. DC-powered refrigerators for them are either very
> expensive or of questionable reliability, like my Alpicool.
> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Alpicool&ref=bl_dp_s_web_0
>
> It does have the advantage of not needing a pure sine inverter
> constantly drawing on the battery.