Posted by harry on October 26, 2009, 7:18 pm
On Oct 25, 6:51 pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" <atlas-
bug...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> In article
> <36r8e515cnjd8n1fkcfvequ7m66ps2q2vg@4ax.
> com>,
> wrote:
> > New_idea,
> > For me, this is not primarily about making bio-gas, although it's a
> > process of interest, it's about solar production of hydrogen, in the
> > book:
> > The chemistry and manufacture of hydrogen
> > by Philip Litherland Teed
> >http://books.google.com/books?id=iiFDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=hydrogen+circ ...
> > th&output=text
> > the author lays out a war-time (WWI) process for making huge amounts
> > of hydrogen with a small-scale device. In my research of hydrogen
> > there seems to be two issues, storage and hydrogen production. On a
> > home-scale, I think I have a solution for storage, but electrolyzing
> > water/KOH for hydrogen has always been a bit troubling, energy-wise.
> Any process used during WW1 or WW2 will
> not necessarily be the most efficient,
> just the most expeditious
> > Like bio-gasification which uses bio-fuel to produce the heat, carbon,
> > and steam to then produce 20% of each hydrogen (H2) and carbon
> > monoxide (CO), the process in the above book uses carbon (C), steam,
> > and oxygen to 50% of each hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (CO2) with
> > no nitrogen. I'm obviously interest producing the hydrogen, the carbon
> > dioxide can also be used to feed the algae to accelerated growth rate.
> > Even using genetic modified "fast growing trees" I'm still back to the
> > issue of falling, cutting, transporting, splitting and cubing the
> > wood, which algae may provide a solution to.
> > Curbie
> Fast growing trees will also require
> external fertilizers unless you are
> capable of modifying the tree to provide
> it's own nitrogen OR provide lots of
> compost...all of which means more work.
"Firewood trees"
Here in Europe there are easily available GM trees intended for
"SRC" (Short Rotation Coppice). They grow seven or eight feet a year
when established. You get your first real crop after three years.
If you have low lying land they can be willows. Better drained
ground, use poplars. In the far North they are harvested like corn
when the ground is frozen (often bog land is used)
The information you are after is here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_rotation_coppice
Posted by Curbie on October 26, 2009, 9:32 pm
Harry,
>"Firewood trees"
>Here in Europe there are easily available GM trees intended for
>"SRC" (Short Rotation Coppice). They grow seven or eight feet a year
>when established. You get your first real crop after three years.
>If you have low lying land they can be willows. Better drained
>ground, use poplars. In the far North they are harvested like corn
>when the ground is frozen (often bog land is used)
>The information you are after is here:-
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_rotation_coppice
Interesting article, I went there looking for yields: "A plantation
will yield from 8 to 18 tonnes of dry woodchip per hectare per year. A
plantation can be harvested for up to thirty years before needing to
be replanted."
Curbie
Posted by Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds on October 22, 2009, 6:50 pm
In article
<2ap0e5pqrr7ipenpti6639lj4j904lhi0i@4ax.
com>,
wrote:
> Well I finally got down to bio-mass gasification in my read queue, Jim
> just mentioned it and I think I first heard of it through Ulysses. An
> interesting process and another time tested DIY project intended for
> home-scale energy production.
>
> I was surprised to read these gasifiers produce ~20% hydrogen (H2),
> ~20% carbon monoxide (CO), and small amounts of methane, all of which
> are combustible. The output gas also contains 50 to 60% nitrogen (N2)
> which is not combustible and occupies volume reducing the volume of
> combustible gas.
>
> http://www.woodgas.net/files/FEMA%20emergency%20gassifer.pdf
>
> While reading the document it occurred to me that I had seen parts of
> this process before while researching hydrogen production using a
> thermal-chemical method:
>
> The chemistry and manufacture of hydrogen
> by Philip Litherland Teed
> http://books.google.com/books?id=iiFDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=hydrogen+circular+hear
> th&output=text
>
> Mainly the function of Pyrolysis in the gasification process:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolysis
>
> I'm not big about cutting down trees to produce fuel (for me
> personally), but I wonder if growing algae which grows fairly quickly
> would work as a feedstock for the process???
If you are going to grow algae,
bio-diesel is a much better way to go.
I've seen a process that led me to
believe that you can ferment the remains
to make alcohol and the remains of that
make a high-protein animal feed...which
means you can use the manure to either
run the fermentation process or to feed
the algae
>
> Thanks,
>
> Curbie
Posted by Curbie on October 22, 2009, 8:11 pm
Hi Mal,
>If you are going to grow algae,
>bio-diesel is a much better way to go.
Pressing oil from lipid baring algae is what got me thinking about
algae for bio-gasification in the first place. If I can get a stain of
lipid baring algae for grow in an open raceway (saving the cost of a
photo-bio-reactor) I still would be left with a lot of bio-mass, if
the remaining bio-mass exceeded my composting needs (my second need)
there still may be room for some bio-gasification.
>I've seen a process that led me to
>believe that you can ferment the remains
>to make alcohol
To ferment alcohol, your chosen strain of algae would need to contain
BOTH lipids (oil) AND some sort of sugar; what stain are you using,
I've been testing Dunaliella tertiolecta.
> and the remains of that
>make a high-protein animal feed...which
>means you can use the manure to either
>run the fermentation process or to feed
>the algae
I don't know what you've found, but for me a particular non-indigenous
stain of algae is a bit picky about the type and ratio of feed, I've
found that deviating from the non-indigenous strains exact nutrient
requirements seems to invite indigenous strains to come crash the
party.
Curbie
Posted by Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds on October 22, 2009, 11:45 pm
In article
<p1f1e51pnqm95ah9v8h74hio71dtdnokql@4ax.
com>,
wrote:
> Hi Mal,
>
> >If you are going to grow algae,
> >bio-diesel is a much better way to go.
> Pressing oil from lipid baring algae is what got me thinking about
> algae for bio-gasification in the first place. If I can get a stain of
> lipid baring algae for grow in an open raceway (saving the cost of a
> photo-bio-reactor) I still would be left with a lot of bio-mass, if
> the remaining bio-mass exceeded my composting needs (my second need)
> there still may be room for some bio-gasification.
>
> >I've seen a process that led me to
> >believe that you can ferment the remains
> >to make alcohol
> To ferment alcohol, your chosen strain of algae would need to contain
> BOTH lipids (oil) AND some sort of sugar; what stain are you using,
> I've been testing Dunaliella tertiolecta.
I'm not using anything. I was watching
some show on the Green Network and they
were visiting someone in a lab that was
growing algae to extract "oil". The way
the rest of the segment talked about the
remains led me to believe the part about
fermenting it for alcohol. The rest of
my thoughts just follow what you could
do.
>
> > and the remains of that
> >make a high-protein animal feed...which
> >means you can use the manure to either
> >run the fermentation process or to feed
> >the algae
> I don't know what you've found, but for me a particular non-indigenous
> stain of algae is a bit picky about the type and ratio of feed, I've
> found that deviating from the non-indigenous strains exact nutrient
> requirements seems to invite indigenous strains to come crash the
> party.
>
> Curbie
XML site map
> <36r8e515cnjd8n1fkcfvequ7m66ps2q2vg@4ax.
> com>,
> wrote:
> > New_idea,
> > For me, this is not primarily about making bio-gas, although it's a
> > process of interest, it's about solar production of hydrogen, in the
> > book:
> > The chemistry and manufacture of hydrogen
> > by Philip Litherland Teed
> >http://books.google.com/books?id=iiFDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=hydrogen+circ ...
> > th&output=text
> > the author lays out a war-time (WWI) process for making huge amounts
> > of hydrogen with a small-scale device. In my research of hydrogen
> > there seems to be two issues, storage and hydrogen production. On a
> > home-scale, I think I have a solution for storage, but electrolyzing
> > water/KOH for hydrogen has always been a bit troubling, energy-wise.
> Any process used during WW1 or WW2 will
> not necessarily be the most efficient,
> just the most expeditious
> > Like bio-gasification which uses bio-fuel to produce the heat, carbon,
> > and steam to then produce 20% of each hydrogen (H2) and carbon
> > monoxide (CO), the process in the above book uses carbon (C), steam,
> > and oxygen to 50% of each hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (CO2) with
> > no nitrogen. I'm obviously interest producing the hydrogen, the carbon
> > dioxide can also be used to feed the algae to accelerated growth rate.
> > Even using genetic modified "fast growing trees" I'm still back to the
> > issue of falling, cutting, transporting, splitting and cubing the
> > wood, which algae may provide a solution to.
> > Curbie
> Fast growing trees will also require
> external fertilizers unless you are
> capable of modifying the tree to provide
> it's own nitrogen OR provide lots of
> compost...all of which means more work.