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Posted by Neon John on June 13, 2008, 9:36 pm

The problem with the environmental religion, as with most religions, is that
there is no moderation.  Extremism is the norm.

I remember going over Missionary Ridge into Chattanooga and seeing the orange
haze and smelling the foundry smoke.  The smell of money.

I'm kinda, but not completely glad the orange haze is gone.  Along with the
haze went the foundry jobs where a guy with barely a high school education
could work his ass off but make enough money to raise a family with the mother
staying at home to BE the mother.  He made $ to $2 an hour IN THE 70s.  Back
when a decent three bedroom house could be had for $0,000 and a car for

Now a guy who barely graduated from high school or who has a GED can make the
same hourly wage flipping burgers in the "tourism and hospitality industry"
but the dollars are tiny in comparison.

Problem is, government is like cancer, a growing thing with the suicide gene
disabled.  The pollution problem was solved in Chattanooga by the late 70s by
running many heavy industries out of town and forcing emission controls on the
rest.  The air became clear and downtown employees could step out on their
lunch break and see sparkling blue skies.  And then go back inside the
kitchens to their minimum wage jobs.

Just as a cancer devours its host, so the EPA and local air quality people
devoured the city.  They couldn't just say "job well done" and go away.  No,
they kept looking for smaller and smaller, ever more inconsequential
"emitters" to regulate.  When the air got clean enough that the EPA's mission
was in jeopardy, why, they simply ratcheted down the standards to define more
ordinary things as "pollution".

A couple of years ago, after one of these ratcheting-downs, the EPA declared
that Chattanooga was a "non-attainment" area because it failed to meet these
new air quality standards something like 11 days out of the summer the
previous year.  The result?  A massive and un-necessary auto emissions testing
system that costs citizens a fortune in both money and time and hassle.

The EPA patted itself on the back and declared the program a success. However,
if one looks at the data, one realizes that "attainment" in the last year or
two is simply normal statistical variations due to weather and other factors.

One interesting tidbit is that the ex-mayor who was in office when emissions
testing train wreck came about seems to own the land that most of the dyno
testing facilities are located on.  Hmmmm.

John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johndearmond.com  <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Okay, okay, I'll take it back ... UNfuck you!

Posted by Balanced View on June 13, 2008, 11:53 pm
Neon John wrote:


You might want to flip the coin, the polluters where just as extreme
with their "Profits above all else" Mantra.

And now they are all keeling over with POD and Cancer as a result, and
we all pay for it. The same companies
are now overseas, quite happy to pay slave wages pollute without
restriction or worry about pesky labor laws.

Then maybe they should have stayed in school and got an education.

I don't know that the government was the problem, Globalizeation was
what made the companies leave
most cities in NA, not pollution control

Posted by clare at snyder dot ontario do on June 14, 2008, 2:27 am

Globalisation only became feasible because of, to some large extent,
government action.
When it is easier and cheaper to crap in someone elses back yard than
your own, companies go where it is cheaper.
With the elimination of protective tarriffs (which can be both good
and bad) the products from where it is cheaper to crap in the back
yard become MUCH cheaper than what is built here.
With the "free market casino" operation with little effective
regulation, and stock prices being the holy grail, companies move all
their production and sourcing to these cheaper places. Soon NOTHING is
made here, of any quality, at any price. Now there are NO
manufacturing jobs left in North America. What little is left is
assembling cheap questionable parts from who-knows-where into
questionable products that need to sell for more than the competition.

All because we are (a) too cheap to pay for quality, and (b) don't
have the money to buy quality because our good paying factory jobs are

I'm glad regulations have helped clean up the air and water - but OH
how I wish it was still possible to go down the street and buy the
parts required to fix something built several years ago that was still
worth fixing!!!!!

I've got several monitors, just over 3 years old, LCD flat-panel 17"
made in China that are failing due to 4 little electrolytic capacitors
that were made with  questionable materials. In this former
electronics manufacturing center of roughly a quarter million people
(and home of the BlackBerry) not a SINGLE SUPPLIER stocks axial lead
1000uf and 470uf 16 volt capacitors!!!!!!!!!
No money in it.

It costs $0 to dispose of them at the landfill - less than $0 for
the caps if I can get them, and less than 15 minutes to repair - or
$80 to replace them. (on top of the $0 disposal fee)

So I go on Ebay - and I can get prime Japanese caps, via Hong Kong,
for $.50 each DELIVERED in quantities of 20 each.
Man, it goes against all my principals to buy the stuff from China -
but not nearly as much as scrapping good equipment because I can't get
the required minor parts locally!!!!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com  **

Posted by Vaughn Simon on June 14, 2008, 10:52 am
<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message

Most rational consumers instinctively seek best VALUE for their money, not
always the lowest cost.  Small example: If low price were of prime importance,
Yugos would still be selling like hotcakes, rather than flopping because they
quickly gained a reputation as a POS.

I was brought up in Detroit (makes me almost Canadian) but I haven't bought a
car from the former big three in decades.  Instead, I pay a bit extra for
quality because I have figured out that it is cheaper.


Posted by Eeyore on June 14, 2008, 11:34 am

Vaughn Simon wrote:

Yes. Well maybe not Yugos, but Skodas sold rather well. Handled pretty well too
NO matter how miserable Communism can be, you can't totally kill the
of their engineers.

Cheaper to run you mean ? Could hardly be diffiicult surely ?


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