Posted by wmbjk on January 21, 2007, 5:26 pm
> My diesel driven alternator
>delivers me on average 1.5KwH per day on about 2 quarts of waste
>vegitable oil. I've been collecting about 20 gallons of WVO weekly.
>Thus, I'm collecting 5 times what I'm using. In just 6 months I have
>about a 3 year's supply. I just leave it in the cubes my donors buy it
>in until I'm ready to use it. I then heat it (with hot water from the
>diesel), filter it (with standard 5 micron water filter elements), and
>use it.
You have a great solution that fits you, congratulations. But it won't
fit most, and even if it did, there's only so much free oil. I've
already heard of a few folks who geared up to burn free oil, and then
had their supply priced out of practicality. You'd be wise not to
advertise your niche locally or you might soon see an end to it. ;-)
BTW, I know two guys in my area who argued that diesel was the smart
way for them to go. Each probably burned up fuel equal to the cost of
a solar setup before giving in and buying one. Running generators gets
old fast. Based on the number of people I know who are working toward
cutting down their backup generator time, I'd guess that only a very
small percentage of the population would be willing to have a
generator as their main source.
Wayne
Posted by DJ on January 21, 2007, 6:33 pm
wmbjk wrote:
> > My diesel driven alternator
> >delivers me on average 1.5KwH per day on about 2 quarts of waste
> >vegetable oil.
> You have a great solution that fits you, congratulations. But it won't
> fit most, and even if it did, there's only so much free oil. I've
> already heard of a few folks who geared up to burn free oil, and then
> had their supply priced out of practicality. You'd be wise not to
> advertise your niche locally or you might soon see an end to it. ;-)
Steve Spence and I know a fellow that runs his luxurious home and
workshop off a pair of diesel listeroid generators that run directly
off WVO. And yep, free collected from local restaurants.
He even imports oil presses for folks that want to grow oil crops and
cut out the deep fryer ;-).
And agreed, this only works as long as the oil supply lasts... but, to
be fair, running a WVO setup takes a fair bit of time and work, and
it's messy sometimes, and there's maintenance to consider, all that.
This "free energy solution" has a pretty small actual target audience I
think.
> BTW, I know two guys in my area who argued that diesel was the smart
> way for them to go. Each probably burned up fuel equal to the cost of
> a solar setup before giving in and buying one.
Oh absolutely. The only way it makes sense is if the fuel is free-ish
(transportation and time not included).
> Running generators gets
> old fast. Based on the number of people I know who are working toward
> cutting down their backup generator time, I'd guess that only a very
> small percentage of the population would be willing to have a
> generator as their main source.
Agreed. But if you have the infrastructure, it is pretty neat. This guy
we know, his gennys are in an insulated shed, away from the house and
neighbors. Can't hear a sound in the house, and just a very low throb
in the yard.
It's a shame, really. I'd love to sell him some photovoltaics or a wind
turbine, he is excellently situated for both, but there's just no logic
to it, so long as his fuel is free. And as he actually sells these
listeroid systems, spare parts and maintenance ability isn't an issue
either. But he DOES have two gensets. When you're truly off grid,
redundancy counts.
DJ
Posted by Todd on January 21, 2007, 8:21 pm
wmbjk wrote:
> > My diesel driven alternator
> >delivers me on average 1.5KwH per day on about 2 quarts of waste
> >vegitable oil. I've been collecting about 20 gallons of WVO weekly.
> >Thus, I'm collecting 5 times what I'm using. In just 6 months I have
> >about a 3 year's supply. I just leave it in the cubes my donors buy it
> >in until I'm ready to use it. I then heat it (with hot water from the
> >diesel), filter it (with standard 5 micron water filter elements), and
> >use it.
> You have a great solution that fits you, congratulations. But it won't
> fit most,
Well, my point is that PV and Wind Turbines don't fit most either.
Especially when the response to my question "why?" came back "to be
independent of the grid" and "to have a backup in case of grid
failure".
> and even if it did, there's only so much free oil. I've
> already heard of a few folks who geared up to burn free oil, and then
> had their supply priced out of practicality.
I initially thought that was a bigger problem then it turned out to be.
If I got dumped by one source, I just went door to door until I found
another source. I have very reliable free sources now ... plus I'm
building up a huge stockpile.
> You'd be wise not to
> advertise your niche locally or you might soon see an end to it. ;-)
The biodiesel folks are no secret and they're consuming a whole bunch
more than I am.
> BTW, I know two guys in my area who argued that diesel was the smart
> way for them to go. Each probably burned up fuel equal to the cost of
> a solar setup before giving in and buying one.
I figure if I was burning diesel I'd be spending $60/month. If I was on
the grid I'd be spending $7/month (except they have a $20 minimum). The
PV solution is just too unreliable. I just went 6 days without sun.
That would have been killer. And there's no wind here in the woods.
> Running generators gets
> old fast. Based on the number of people I know who are working toward
> cutting down their backup generator time, I'd guess that only a very
> small percentage of the population would be willing to have a
> generator as their main source.
I'm convinced I can automate my system so the diesel automatically
starts when it reaches a low point; charges Ultra Caps quickly; and
shuts down. A control circuit on the Ultra Caps would then slow charge
the batteries.
I'm sure I can automate the WVO processing too. I'll take the exhaust
heat and coolant heat from the engine to heat up the oil in a salvaged
water heater. I'll just pour the WVO in and tap it at about the 1/3
point, run it through the 5 micron water filter, through a fuel filter
and directly into the engine. The gook will settle to the bottom. I'll
periodically check it at say the 1/4 full point and if I see gook, I'll
drain from the bottom until the gook is gone.
I can use the gooky WVO in a furnace for heating. I'll just have to
take out clinkers every now and then like they used to do with coal.
Todd Marshall
Plantersville, TX
Posted by George Ghio on January 22, 2007, 1:52 am
Todd wrote:
> Steve Spence wrote:
>
>> Our wind turbine helps charge our 1260 ah 12vdc battery bank. That
>> battery bank feeds a xantrex prosine 3kw sw inverter, that powers our house.
>
> I have one 160W PV panel (that only puts out 90W for 5 hours on a sunny
> day ... otherwise, nothing.) It cost about $700. One of these wind
> turbines seems to be about twice that capacity and costs about twice my
> PV panel. Assuming the wind blows continuously (like on the Oregon
> coast), wind turbines could be potentially 5 times more effective per $
> cost than PV's.
>
> My one PV panel is essentially useless. It won't keep my 10 70AH
> (i.e. 700 AH battery bank) batteries charged with just my 40W
> continuous average load refrigerator draining them.
Ah. The design is flawed. You have not learned enough about the subject
to be left without supervision.
>
> If I had more PV panels it could potentially charge the battery bank.
> To support more drain, though, I'd need more batteries. I presume the
> same kind of experience is found with the wind turbines. You need more
> than 5 hours of wind per day, and you need it every day. You need lots
> of batteries. You need several turbines to charge a battery bank
> intended to span the periods when you're not charging and to support
> life (comfort) supporting loads.
>
> My $200 2KW diesel burning about 6L of WVO per day has 5 times the
> capacity of a single wind turbine, has 10 times the capacity of my PV
> panel, and can operate as needed, continuous or otherwise, to maintain
> battery charge sufficient for life (comfort) supporting loads which
> the $2K to $5K alternatives cannot practically support.
>
> And you can stockpile large quantities of WVO easily.
>
> Batteries, PV panels, wind turbines, and such thus don't seem to
> scale up very well when compared to an IC engine, particularly a
> diesel, and more particularly a diesel burning WVO.
>
> Why are those alternatives even being considered if you're just looking
> for backup when the grid goes down?
>
> Todd Marshall
> Plantersville, TX
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Posted by Todd on January 22, 2007, 9:43 am
George Ghio wrote:
> Todd wrote:
> > Steve Spence wrote:
> >
> >> Our wind turbine helps charge our 1260 ah 12vdc battery bank. That
> >> battery bank feeds a xantrex prosine 3kw sw inverter, that powers our house.
> >
> > I have one 160W PV panel (that only puts out 90W for 5 hours on a sunny
> > day ... otherwise, nothing.) It cost about $700. One of these wind
> > turbines seems to be about twice that capacity and costs about twice my
> > PV panel. Assuming the wind blows continuously (like on the Oregon
> > coast), wind turbines could be potentially 5 times more effective per $
> > cost than PV's.
> >
> > My one PV panel is essentially useless. It won't keep my 10 70AH
> > (i.e. 700 AH battery bank) batteries charged with just my 40W
> > continuous average load refrigerator draining them.
> Ah. The design is flawed. You have not learned enough about the subject
> to be left without supervision.
Well that's kind of insulting ... but I'll accept that. But rather than
supervision, how about some edification? Without some elaboration, your
comment is just one of a crackpot.
Todd
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>delivers me on average 1.5KwH per day on about 2 quarts of waste
>vegitable oil. I've been collecting about 20 gallons of WVO weekly.
>Thus, I'm collecting 5 times what I'm using. In just 6 months I have
>about a 3 year's supply. I just leave it in the cubes my donors buy it
>in until I'm ready to use it. I then heat it (with hot water from the
>diesel), filter it (with standard 5 micron water filter elements), and
>use it.