Posted by Josepi on June 28, 2010, 6:26 am
Mike will be pleased you scored idiot value again in
less than three hours!
LOL
LOL
LOL
On 6/27/2010 9:17 PM, m II wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 13:23:20 -0500, The Daring Dufas
> Wrong! Where do you idiots get this information?
> Propane liquefies about 150 PSI at room temperature. NG takes much more
> pressure.
> Mike
OK, I got un-lazy and looked it up. I learn something new every day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_natural_gas
TDD
Posted by m II on June 28, 2010, 6:37 am
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 13:23:20 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>>On 6/26/2010 12:32 PM, harry wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 6/26/2010 3:20 AM, harry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> In article
>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 24, 5:41 pm, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
>>>>>>>> Are there auto-changeover propane regulators (or separate
>>>>>>>> auto-changeover
>>>>>>>> devices) for fixed (2x 1000 gallon) tanks? The propane company
>>>>>>>> putting in
>>>>>>>> my tanks had not heard of this, and Google searches turn up only
>>>>>>>> ones for
>>>>>>>> small RV tanks. Ideally something with a remote indicator would be
>>>>>>>> nice;
>>>>>>>> I could arrange for the computer to email me to call for a
>>>>>>>> delivery...
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan Lanciani
>>>>>>>> ddl@danlan.*com
>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a reson you can't use the rv ones? Are you using the same
>>>>>>> pressure? I've not seen any with remote indicators though.
>>>>
>>>>>> there is ONE BIG reason you can't RV tanks on a generator of any
>>>>>> size.
>>>>>> (10Kw) they are Vapor withdraw type tanks and they don't have enough
>>>>>> surface area to allow the propane liquid to boil off into gas,
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> freezing up the tank.... duh... anyone who has ever tried it knows
>>>>>> this...
>>>>
>>>>> This is true. We run cars on propane over here. The liquid propane
>>>>> is vapourised in a heat exchange device that draws water from the
>>>>> coolant jacket of the IC engine. Many are converted from petrol,
>>>>> there is an annular ring fitted between the carburretor and the inlet
>>>>> manifold that injects the gas through a ring of holes. Needle jet
>>>>> controls the gas on the liquid side of the vapouriser device.
>>>>
>>>> Here, Alabama Gas has been running their vehicles on natural gas for
>>>> many years. You can see the CNG tanks on the beds of their service
>>>> trucks. Those vehicles have a similar setup to those that run on
>>>> Propane.
>>>>
>>>> TDD- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> Aha. There is a difference .The natural gas is just compressed. The
>>> propane is liquid and has to be evaporated off. I suppose in a warm
>>> climate you might not need an evaporator but even here in the UK you
>>> do.
>>> In the hospital where I worked we had liquid oxygen. It held about
>>> three tons of LOXWe even needed a heat exchanger on that to evaporate
>>> the LOX. It was just like a big car radiator. Even so it used to
>>> freeze up. We had to clear the ice off with a steam lance in certain
>>> weather conditions.
>>
>>You know, I'm not sure if the gas company is not liquefying the natural
>>gas, the tanks look very substantial and the technology for liquefying
>>NG is quite mature. I know some guys who work for Alabama gas and I will
>>ask them about it. In another thread there was a discussion about O2 and
>>the tanks. I mentioned the rather large LOX tank at the University
>>Hospital complex here in town that I want to know more about.
> Unlike propane, natural gas can't be in the liquid state at room
> temperature,
> so must be transported cryogenically or compressed under extreme pressure.
> Cryogenics are complicated, heavy, and require energy themselves. A
> highly
> compressed flammable gas isn't exactly a good vehicle fuel either; not
> enough
> can be carried safely.
Correct! Where do you wizards get this information?
This NG takes much more pressure from idiots than I can bear! LOL
Josepi
Posted by Gary Heston on June 29, 2010, 10:41 pm
[ ... ]
>You know, I'm not sure if the gas company is not liquefying the natural
>gas, the tanks look very substantial and the technology for liquefying
>NG is quite mature. I know some guys who work for Alabama gas and I will
>ask them about it. In another thread there was a discussion about O2 and
>the tanks. I mentioned the rather large LOX tank at the University
>Hospital complex here in town that I want to know more about.
To point out a rather obvious item; if it were liquified, it would be
referred to as LNG, not CNG.
I was considering converting a car, until I looked at the cost and
regulatory issues..
Starting price, $13,500.
Only available for a very specific few very recent (2009-2010) vehicles.
You must use a federally certified package, installed by an authorized
dealer or the OEM, for the resulting vehicle to be street legal.
Then, you get to spring for the refulling station...
Not worth the cost or trouble, IMHO. With a round-trip commute to work of
6.4 miles (about 10KM), there'd never be a payback.
Gary
--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
If you want to reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
go plant trees.
Posted by The Daring Dufas on June 29, 2010, 11:13 pm
On 6/29/2010 9:41 PM, Gary Heston wrote:
> [ ... ]
>> You know, I'm not sure if the gas company is not liquefying the natural
>> gas, the tanks look very substantial and the technology for liquefying
>> NG is quite mature. I know some guys who work for Alabama gas and I will
>> ask them about it. In another thread there was a discussion about O2 and
>> the tanks. I mentioned the rather large LOX tank at the University
>> Hospital complex here in town that I want to know more about.
> To point out a rather obvious item; if it were liquified, it would be
> referred to as LNG, not CNG.
> I was considering converting a car, until I looked at the cost and
> regulatory issues..
> Starting price, $13,500.
> Only available for a very specific few very recent (2009-2010) vehicles.
> You must use a federally certified package, installed by an authorized
> dealer or the OEM, for the resulting vehicle to be street legal.
> Then, you get to spring for the refulling station...
> Not worth the cost or trouble, IMHO. With a round-trip commute to work of
> 6.4 miles (about 10KM), there'd never be a payback.
> Gary
Because I have no idea, I'll have to ask one of the guys or do some
research. I drive by the gas company main office where the trucks
are dispatched from all the time. I believe they are using CNG
because their refill station on their lot doesn't appear to have
anything resembling cryogenics. I did come across this:
http://tinyurl.com/297wvfc
TDD
Posted by harry on June 25, 2010, 9:02 am
On Jun 24, 10:41 pm, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
> Are there auto-changeover propane regulators (or separate auto-changeover
> devices) for fixed (2x 1000 gallon) tanks? The propane company putting in
> my tanks had not heard of this, and Google searches turn up only ones for
> small RV tanks. Ideally something with a remote indicator would be nice;
> I could arrange for the computer to email me to call for a delivery...
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com
There are in the UK. You don't need an auto change over . Why do you
need two tanks? There exists devices that calls the gas company to
top up the gas when it's low. Works on cell phone net. Some weigh
the tank, some have a floating thingy inside the tank.
Even without that technology, they'll come and top up on a regular
basis once your useage pattern has been established.
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> Wrong! Where do you idiots get this information?
> Propane liquefies about 150 PSI at room temperature. NG takes much more
> pressure.
> Mike