Posted by Cat22 on October 26, 2010, 6:55 am
On Sun 10/24/2010 5:02 PM, Martin Riddle wrote:
>> On Sun 10/24/2010 2:41 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>> I have a 5700 watt Mcculloch FG5700AK generator. When its under a
>>>> good load its ok,but when the load is light/none the freq jumps way
>>>> up. The speed sounds about normal, but the frequency measures 180 HZ
>>>> at very light/no loads and under quarter load or so the freq drops
>>>> back to close to 60 HZ.Output voltage is ~120vac and it does vary
>>>> some depending on load. I discovered this when we had a blackout and
>>>> i tried to run my new furnace on the generator, it would show fault
>>>> led's if the fridge kicked on (momentary voltage sag). or if nothing
>>>> else was running besides the furnace.
>>>> I measured the noload freq with a fluke meter t ~180Hz- and at
>>>> first
>>>> i thought i just didnt have a connection to the meter probe, but
>>>> under load (the lowest load i tried and still got 60Hz was 700
>>>> watts)
>>>> it drops back to right about 60Hz
>>>> Its a new Coleman CP9C Echelon furnace, my old carrier weathermaker
>>>> 8000 worked fine on the generator. One big difference is the Coleman
>>>> draws very little power.
>>>>
>>>> I had thought abut putting this on the furnace circuit:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LC 1800 Line Conditioner / AVR System LC1800"
>>>> or maybe this:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LCR2400 Line Conditioner - Automatic Voltage
>>>> Regulation
>>>> with Surge Protection"
>>>> Would an ordinary Computer 1200VA UPS do?
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Why does the freq act like that? Time for new generator?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Cat22
>>>
>>> This seems to be a standard generator and not one of the inverter
>>> types.
>>> There is no way for it to really be putting out 180 Hz. It is
>>> determined by
>>> the speed of the generator which should be about 3600 RPM. To get to
>>> 180 Hz
>>> it would have to turn 3 times that fast which would be around 10,000
>>> rpm.
>>>
>>> It is probably putting out some spikes in the voltage and your
>>> frequency
>>> meter is picking that up.
>>>
>>> If the generator still powers up most loads that do not have any
>>> electronics
>>> in them, the generator is probably OK. If the voltage falls way down
>>> under
>>> loads like the water heater or lots of lights or even if you have one
>>> a load
>>> such as a portable heater or hair dryer and does not come back up in
>>> a
>>> second or so , then you may need to look for a new generator. It may
>>> help
>>> to replace teh brushes in it if it has any.
>>>
>>>
>> I think you are right, the fluke is reading harmonics or something
>> when there is little to no load. All my other stuff (2 fridges a
>> freezer some cfl lights and a microwave) run fine, its just this
>> furnace that seems sensitive to the generator output.
>> What do you think about either of the two items i listed above to help
>> clean the power? Would I be wasting my money?
>> Thanks
>> Cat22
>>
> Try a resistive load in parallel with the furnace. Such as a 100w
> incandesant bulb.
> If you have a Kill-a-watt, see what the Power factor is of the furnace.
> The 100w bulb might pose enough of a resistive load to the generator to
> make things stable.
> I agree with Ralph that the brushes or slip rings may be worn or dirty
> causing havoc with the generators exciter circuit. But it could be that
> furnace motor has lousy PF. Is it a capacitive start or does it have a
> start winding?
> Cheers
I'll rig it up and see what happens, I have a small electric heater i
can use to load it also i can vary that load down to 750 wats
I do have a kill-a-watt, My feeling now is that its the dip when
something comes on that is causing the furnace to drop out
Cat22
Posted by hubops on October 25, 2010, 12:25 am
>>> I have a 5700 watt Mcculloch FG5700AK generator. When its under a
>>> good load its ok,but when the load is light/none the freq jumps way
>>> up. The speed sounds about normal, but the frequency measures 180 HZ
>>> at very light/no loads and under quarter load or so the freq drops
>>> back to close to 60 HZ.Output voltage is ~120vac and it does vary
>>> some depending on load. I discovered this when we had a blackout and
>>> i tried to run my new furnace on the generator, it would show fault
>>> led's if the fridge kicked on (momentary voltage sag). or if nothing
>>> else was running besides the furnace.
>>> I measured the noload freq with a fluke meter t ~180Hz- and at first
>>> i thought i just didnt have a connection to the meter probe, but
>>> under load (the lowest load i tried and still got 60Hz was 700 watts)
>>> it drops back to right about 60Hz
>>> Its a new Coleman CP9C Echelon furnace, my old carrier weathermaker
>>> 8000 worked fine on the generator. One big difference is the Coleman
>>> draws very little power.
>>>
>>> I had thought abut putting this on the furnace circuit:
>>> "Tripp Lite LC 1800 Line Conditioner / AVR System LC1800"
>>> or maybe this:
>>> "Tripp Lite LCR2400 Line Conditioner - Automatic Voltage Regulation
>>> with Surge Protection"
>>> Would an ordinary Computer 1200VA UPS do?
>>> Any ideas? Why does the freq act like that? Time for new generator?
>>> Thanks
>>> Cat22
>>
>> This seems to be a standard generator and not one of the inverter types.
>> There is no way for it to really be putting out 180 Hz. It is determined by
>> the speed of the generator which should be about 3600 RPM. To get to 180 Hz
>> it would have to turn 3 times that fast which would be around 10,000 rpm.
>> It is probably putting out some spikes in the voltage and your frequency
>> meter is picking that up.
>> If the generator still powers up most loads that do not have any electronics
>> in them, the generator is probably OK. If the voltage falls way down under
>> loads like the water heater or lots of lights or even if you have one a load
>> such as a portable heater or hair dryer and does not come back up in a
>> second or so , then you may need to look for a new generator. It may help
>> to replace teh brushes in it if it has any.
>>
>>
>I think you are right, the fluke is reading harmonics or something when
>there is little to no load. All my other stuff (2 fridges a freezer some
>cfl lights and a microwave) run fine, its just this furnace that seems
>sensitive to the generator output.
>What do you think about either of the two items i listed above to help
>clean the power? Would I be wasting my money?
>Thanks
>Cat22
... Can I ask what brand / model of furnace ?
and/or what make of controller in the furnace ?
... just for selfish reasons - I got a new Trane
a couple of years ago that I haven't tested
on my Honda generator yet ...
My old Clare ( ~ 1990 ) was fine on generator power.
.. it had a White-Rogers controller if I remember.
The Trane people said they haven't heard of any issues.
Thanks ; John T.
Posted by Cat22 on October 26, 2010, 6:56 am
On Sun 10/24/2010 5:25 PM, hubops wrote:
>>>> I have a 5700 watt Mcculloch FG5700AK generator. When its under a
>>>> good load its ok,but when the load is light/none the freq jumps way
>>>> up. The speed sounds about normal, but the frequency measures 180 HZ
>>>> at very light/no loads and under quarter load or so the freq drops
>>>> back to close to 60 HZ.Output voltage is ~120vac and it does vary
>>>> some depending on load. I discovered this when we had a blackout and
>>>> i tried to run my new furnace on the generator, it would show fault
>>>> led's if the fridge kicked on (momentary voltage sag). or if nothing
>>>> else was running besides the furnace.
>>>> I measured the noload freq with a fluke meter t ~180Hz- and at first
>>>> i thought i just didnt have a connection to the meter probe, but
>>>> under load (the lowest load i tried and still got 60Hz was 700 watts)
>>>> it drops back to right about 60Hz
>>>> Its a new Coleman CP9C Echelon furnace, my old carrier weathermaker
>>>> 8000 worked fine on the generator. One big difference is the Coleman
>>>> draws very little power.
>>>>
>>>> I had thought abut putting this on the furnace circuit:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LC 1800 Line Conditioner / AVR System LC1800"
>>>> or maybe this:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LCR2400 Line Conditioner - Automatic Voltage Regulation
>>>> with Surge Protection"
>>>> Would an ordinary Computer 1200VA UPS do?
>>>> Any ideas? Why does the freq act like that? Time for new generator?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Cat22
>>>
>>> This seems to be a standard generator and not one of the inverter types.
>>> There is no way for it to really be putting out 180 Hz. It is determined by
>>> the speed of the generator which should be about 3600 RPM. To get to 180 Hz
>>> it would have to turn 3 times that fast which would be around 10,000 rpm.
>>> It is probably putting out some spikes in the voltage and your frequency
>>> meter is picking that up.
>>> If the generator still powers up most loads that do not have any electronics
>>> in them, the generator is probably OK. If the voltage falls way down under
>>> loads like the water heater or lots of lights or even if you have one a load
>>> such as a portable heater or hair dryer and does not come back up in a
>>> second or so , then you may need to look for a new generator. It may help
>>> to replace teh brushes in it if it has any.
>>>
>>>
>> I think you are right, the fluke is reading harmonics or something when
>> there is little to no load. All my other stuff (2 fridges a freezer some
>> cfl lights and a microwave) run fine, its just this furnace that seems
>> sensitive to the generator output.
>> What do you think about either of the two items i listed above to help
>> clean the power? Would I be wasting my money?
>> Thanks
>> Cat22
> ... Can I ask what brand / model of furnace ?
> and/or what make of controller in the furnace ?
> ... just for selfish reasons - I got a new Trane
> a couple of years ago that I haven't tested
> on my Honda generator yet ...
> My old Clare ( ~ 1990 ) was fine on generator power.
> .. it had a White-Rogers controller if I remember.
> The Trane people said they haven't heard of any issues.
> Thanks ; John T.
its a Coleman CP9C060B12 gas furnace.
Posted by clare on October 25, 2010, 1:09 am
wrote:
>On Sun 10/24/2010 2:41 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>> I have a 5700 watt Mcculloch FG5700AK generator. When its under a
>>> good load its ok,but when the load is light/none the freq jumps way
>>> up. The speed sounds about normal, but the frequency measures 180 HZ
>>> at very light/no loads and under quarter load or so the freq drops
>>> back to close to 60 HZ.Output voltage is ~120vac and it does vary
>>> some depending on load. I discovered this when we had a blackout and
>>> i tried to run my new furnace on the generator, it would show fault
>>> led's if the fridge kicked on (momentary voltage sag). or if nothing
>>> else was running besides the furnace.
>>> I measured the noload freq with a fluke meter t ~180Hz- and at first
>>> i thought i just didnt have a connection to the meter probe, but
>>> under load (the lowest load i tried and still got 60Hz was 700 watts)
>>> it drops back to right about 60Hz
>>> Its a new Coleman CP9C Echelon furnace, my old carrier weathermaker
>>> 8000 worked fine on the generator. One big difference is the Coleman
>>> draws very little power.
>>>
>>> I had thought abut putting this on the furnace circuit:
>>> "Tripp Lite LC 1800 Line Conditioner / AVR System LC1800"
>>> or maybe this:
>>> "Tripp Lite LCR2400 Line Conditioner - Automatic Voltage Regulation
>>> with Surge Protection"
>>> Would an ordinary Computer 1200VA UPS do?
>>>
>>> Any ideas? Why does the freq act like that? Time for new generator?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Cat22
>>
>> This seems to be a standard generator and not one of the inverter types.
>> There is no way for it to really be putting out 180 Hz. It is determined by
>> the speed of the generator which should be about 3600 RPM. To get to 180 Hz
>> it would have to turn 3 times that fast which would be around 10,000 rpm.
>>
>> It is probably putting out some spikes in the voltage and your frequency
>> meter is picking that up.
>>
>> If the generator still powers up most loads that do not have any electronics
>> in them, the generator is probably OK. If the voltage falls way down under
>> loads like the water heater or lots of lights or even if you have one a load
>> such as a portable heater or hair dryer and does not come back up in a
>> second or so , then you may need to look for a new generator. It may help
>> to replace teh brushes in it if it has any.
>>
>>
>I think you are right, the fluke is reading harmonics or something when
>there is little to no load. All my other stuff (2 fridges a freezer some
>cfl lights and a microwave) run fine, its just this furnace that seems
>sensitive to the generator output.
>What do you think about either of the two items i listed above to help
>clean the power? Would I be wasting my money?
>Thanks
>Cat22
a steady load, like lights, to get the total load to 700 should allow
the furnace to run just fine. DON'T let the refrige cut in while the
furnace is running.
Only a dual conversion UPS (full online) big enough to handle the
furnace would do any good.
Posted by Cat22 on October 26, 2010, 6:58 am
On Sun 10/24/2010 6:09 PM, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> wrote:
>> On Sun 10/24/2010 2:41 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>> I have a 5700 watt Mcculloch FG5700AK generator. When its under a
>>>> good load its ok,but when the load is light/none the freq jumps way
>>>> up. The speed sounds about normal, but the frequency measures 180 HZ
>>>> at very light/no loads and under quarter load or so the freq drops
>>>> back to close to 60 HZ.Output voltage is ~120vac and it does vary
>>>> some depending on load. I discovered this when we had a blackout and
>>>> i tried to run my new furnace on the generator, it would show fault
>>>> led's if the fridge kicked on (momentary voltage sag). or if nothing
>>>> else was running besides the furnace.
>>>> I measured the noload freq with a fluke meter t ~180Hz- and at first
>>>> i thought i just didnt have a connection to the meter probe, but
>>>> under load (the lowest load i tried and still got 60Hz was 700 watts)
>>>> it drops back to right about 60Hz
>>>> Its a new Coleman CP9C Echelon furnace, my old carrier weathermaker
>>>> 8000 worked fine on the generator. One big difference is the Coleman
>>>> draws very little power.
>>>>
>>>> I had thought abut putting this on the furnace circuit:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LC 1800 Line Conditioner / AVR System LC1800"
>>>> or maybe this:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LCR2400 Line Conditioner - Automatic Voltage Regulation
>>>> with Surge Protection"
>>>> Would an ordinary Computer 1200VA UPS do?
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Why does the freq act like that? Time for new generator?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Cat22
>>>
>>> This seems to be a standard generator and not one of the inverter types.
>>> There is no way for it to really be putting out 180 Hz. It is determined by
>>> the speed of the generator which should be about 3600 RPM. To get to 180 Hz
>>> it would have to turn 3 times that fast which would be around 10,000 rpm.
>>>
>>> It is probably putting out some spikes in the voltage and your frequency
>>> meter is picking that up.
>>>
>>> If the generator still powers up most loads that do not have any electronics
>>> in them, the generator is probably OK. If the voltage falls way down under
>>> loads like the water heater or lots of lights or even if you have one a load
>>> such as a portable heater or hair dryer and does not come back up in a
>>> second or so , then you may need to look for a new generator. It may help
>>> to replace teh brushes in it if it has any.
>>>
>>>
>> I think you are right, the fluke is reading harmonics or something when
>> there is little to no load. All my other stuff (2 fridges a freezer some
>> cfl lights and a microwave) run fine, its just this furnace that seems
>> sensitive to the generator output.
>> What do you think about either of the two items i listed above to help
>> clean the power? Would I be wasting my money?
>> Thanks
>> Cat22
> a steady load, like lights, to get the total load to 700 should allow
> the furnace to run just fine. DON'T let the refrige cut in while the
> furnace is running.
> Only a dual conversion UPS (full online) big enough to handle the
> furnace would do any good.
the furnace specs say its 7.0 amps total unit draw
The motors are variable speed, DC i believe.
XML site map
>>>> I have a 5700 watt Mcculloch FG5700AK generator. When its under a
>>>> good load its ok,but when the load is light/none the freq jumps way
>>>> up. The speed sounds about normal, but the frequency measures 180 HZ
>>>> at very light/no loads and under quarter load or so the freq drops
>>>> back to close to 60 HZ.Output voltage is ~120vac and it does vary
>>>> some depending on load. I discovered this when we had a blackout and
>>>> i tried to run my new furnace on the generator, it would show fault
>>>> led's if the fridge kicked on (momentary voltage sag). or if nothing
>>>> else was running besides the furnace.
>>>> I measured the noload freq with a fluke meter t ~180Hz- and at
>>>> first
>>>> i thought i just didnt have a connection to the meter probe, but
>>>> under load (the lowest load i tried and still got 60Hz was 700
>>>> watts)
>>>> it drops back to right about 60Hz
>>>> Its a new Coleman CP9C Echelon furnace, my old carrier weathermaker
>>>> 8000 worked fine on the generator. One big difference is the Coleman
>>>> draws very little power.
>>>>
>>>> I had thought abut putting this on the furnace circuit:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LC 1800 Line Conditioner / AVR System LC1800"
>>>> or maybe this:
>>>> "Tripp Lite LCR2400 Line Conditioner - Automatic Voltage
>>>> Regulation
>>>> with Surge Protection"
>>>> Would an ordinary Computer 1200VA UPS do?
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Why does the freq act like that? Time for new generator?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Cat22
>>>
>>> This seems to be a standard generator and not one of the inverter
>>> types.
>>> There is no way for it to really be putting out 180 Hz. It is
>>> determined by
>>> the speed of the generator which should be about 3600 RPM. To get to
>>> 180 Hz
>>> it would have to turn 3 times that fast which would be around 10,000
>>> rpm.
>>>
>>> It is probably putting out some spikes in the voltage and your
>>> frequency
>>> meter is picking that up.
>>>
>>> If the generator still powers up most loads that do not have any
>>> electronics
>>> in them, the generator is probably OK. If the voltage falls way down
>>> under
>>> loads like the water heater or lots of lights or even if you have one
>>> a load
>>> such as a portable heater or hair dryer and does not come back up in
>>> a
>>> second or so , then you may need to look for a new generator. It may
>>> help
>>> to replace teh brushes in it if it has any.
>>>
>>>
>> I think you are right, the fluke is reading harmonics or something
>> when there is little to no load. All my other stuff (2 fridges a
>> freezer some cfl lights and a microwave) run fine, its just this
>> furnace that seems sensitive to the generator output.
>> What do you think about either of the two items i listed above to help
>> clean the power? Would I be wasting my money?
>> Thanks
>> Cat22
>>
> Try a resistive load in parallel with the furnace. Such as a 100w
> incandesant bulb.
> If you have a Kill-a-watt, see what the Power factor is of the furnace.
> The 100w bulb might pose enough of a resistive load to the generator to
> make things stable.
> I agree with Ralph that the brushes or slip rings may be worn or dirty
> causing havoc with the generators exciter circuit. But it could be that
> furnace motor has lousy PF. Is it a capacitive start or does it have a
> start winding?
> Cheers