Posted by chrisvillar on December 16, 2004, 5:04 pm
I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent
of the grid, etc. Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving
measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years). I'd
like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my
house. Getting my wife's approval, and to really justify it to myself,
I need to have confidence that it is a good investment. Anybody done
any work on this?
I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas. Standard 2x4
construction. Gas heat, waterheat, and stove. Already switching to
compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out. No programmable
thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.
I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody
wants to lend a hand or advise.
What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save
money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle. My wife
will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our
lifestyle will be essential.
Posted by James Baber on December 16, 2004, 6:25 pm
Jim Baber comments:
chrisvillar@hotmail.com wrote:
> I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent
> of the grid, etc. Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving
> measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).
Chris, You are very optimistic, those are good goals, but
the idea of living independent of the grid is not very
practical particularly in a short term ROI.
The practical short term measures are conservation measures:
1 Change as many lights to florescent (use t8 florescent
with electronic ballast) or the compact florescent bulbs to
replace all incandescent bulbs
2 Insulate the house as much as you can to as high a R
rating as you can, seal all the windows and doors as well as
you can, (caulking is cheap and quite effective in stopping
expensive drafts winter or summer)
3 In my home, built in 1954, replacing all the windows with
dual pane and coated windows was effective, but quite
expensive. If I had done the work myself, it would have
been much cheaper, and I could have done it myself, had I
known how simple a job it was. It was a lot easier than I
had imagined, but you would need to watch someone do it once.
4 In this area, although daytime temps are over 100
frequently (98 days last year), since the evenings usually
are under 75 by 10PM running a wholehouse fan or 2 is much
better cost wise that my air conditioner. and you can get a
good wholehouse fan for under $200. Mine saved about 7,500
kW last year by itself. Just don't turn it on until it is
cooler outside than in (they do sell neat differential
thermostatic controls for this, but I look at 2 thermometers
because I'm cheap).
5 Plant deciduous shade trees on the south and west side of
the house. The leaves help the insulation in the summer,
but are gone in the winter to let the sun help heat you.
Also, if you are in one of the dry parts of Texas the summer
transpiration through the leaves can raise the humidity
around the house.
----------------------------------------------------------
As far as going off grid for power, I have to admit that I
do not see any way that can be done in a short payback. I
have a very good performing grid tied Solar PV system now,
but my payback will be 6.2 years after I turned it on, and
the grid tied systems are much as 1/3 cheaper than off grid.
I have to be honest and add the only reason my payback is
that good (and it is the best I am aware of), is because I
am in California, and at the time I installed it the state
had a $4.00 / W rebate (worth $40,000 to me) and the state
also had a 15% income tax credit for the year installed.
(worth a $6,000 reduction in my state income taxes)
The size of the system is such that with the NET metering
and the fact that we are on the Time Of Use rate structure,
our power bill was reduced from $4,900 to less than $72.
(this is a minimum hookup charge) We do still get about 21%
of our power from the grid, but because the time of use
metering is so advantageous to solar generation, we stay
well ahead of the power company as far as $ are concerned.
> like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my
> house. Getting my wife's approval, and to really justify it to myself,
> I need to have confidence that it is a good investment. Anybody done
> any work on this?
>
> I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas. Standard 2x4
> construction. Gas heat, waterheat, and stove. Already switching to
> compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out. .......
My house is 2 separate building 16 ft apart totaling 4000
sq. ft. (A 1200 sq. ft mother in law house behind the main
house) We have 3 central A/C units and are all electric
except for heat.
> ....................No programmable
> thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.
I am retired and am home most of the time, but I do use the
setbacks, but not over 80 daytime summer or under 67 winter
days, 63 for sleeping. (it hasn't been above 50 here for 8
days in the 30s at night) The only reason I mention that is
to correct some misconceptions about California.
>
> I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody
> wants to lend a hand or advise.
>
> What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save
> money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle. My wife
> will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our
> lifestyle will be essential.
>
Good luck, the WAF factor is important, the solar system
took a 2 year sales approach, now she brags about it, but
still kids me a lot about things like the astronaut
recognition factor
--
Jim Baber
Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org
1350 W Mesa Ave.
Fresno CA, 93711
(559) 435-9068
(559) 905-2204 (A no charge Verizon IN cellphone to other
Verizon IN accounts)
See our 10kW grid tied solar system at "www.baber.org"
Posted by Charles Foot on December 16, 2004, 11:56 pm
Living here on Great Barrier Island (www.thebarrier.net), where we have
no reticulated supplies of any kind, I can say with some authority that
the most rapid energy saving measure is simply getting into the habit of
using lights only when neccessary and always turning them off after you.
The other habit to cultivate is always turning appliances off at the
wall when not in use.
If you have a freezer, run it through a timer so that it gets 3 1-hour
on-cycles during the day and none at night.
Televisions and computer monitors are energy soaks, esp. the latter.
I've replaced all my comp. monitors with LCD screens for quite a
dramatic saving in power. (But then I normally have 2 or 3 machiness
running for several hours a day).
Cheers,
Charles
James Baber wrote:
> Jim Baber comments:
>
> chrisvillar@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent
>> of the grid, etc. Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving
>> measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).
>
> Chris, You are very optimistic, those are good goals, but the idea of
> living independent of the grid is not very practical particularly in a
> short term ROI.
>
> The practical short term measures are conservation measures:
>
> 1 Change as many lights to florescent (use t8 florescent with
> electronic ballast) or the compact florescent bulbs to replace all
> incandescent bulbs
>
> 2 Insulate the house as much as you can to as high a R rating as you
> can, seal all the windows and doors as well as you can, (caulking is
> cheap and quite effective in stopping expensive drafts winter or summer)
>
> 3 In my home, built in 1954, replacing all the windows with dual pane
> and coated windows was effective, but quite expensive. If I had done
> the work myself, it would have been much cheaper, and I could have done
> it myself, had I known how simple a job it was. It was a lot easier
> than I had imagined, but you would need to watch someone do it once.
>
> 4 In this area, although daytime temps are over 100 frequently (98
> days last year), since the evenings usually are under 75 by 10PM running
> a wholehouse fan or 2 is much better cost wise that my air conditioner.
> and you can get a good wholehouse fan for under $200. Mine saved about
> 7,500 kW last year by itself. Just don't turn it on until it is cooler
> outside than in (they do sell neat differential thermostatic controls
> for this, but I look at 2 thermometers because I'm cheap).
>
> 5 Plant deciduous shade trees on the south and west side of the
> house. The leaves help the insulation in the summer, but are gone in
> the winter to let the sun help heat you. Also, if you are in one of the
> dry parts of Texas the summer transpiration through the leaves can raise
> the humidity around the house.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> As far as going off grid for power, I have to admit that I do not see
> any way that can be done in a short payback. I have a very good
> performing grid tied Solar PV system now, but my payback will be 6.2
> years after I turned it on, and the grid tied systems are much as 1/3
> cheaper than off grid.
>
> I have to be honest and add the only reason my payback is that good (and
> it is the best I am aware of), is because I am in California, and at the
> time I installed it the state had a $4.00 / W rebate (worth $40,000 to
> me) and the state also had a 15% income tax credit for the year
> installed. (worth a $6,000 reduction in my state income taxes)
>
> The size of the system is such that with the NET metering and the fact
> that we are on the Time Of Use rate structure,
> our power bill was reduced from $4,900 to less than $72. (this is a
> minimum hookup charge) We do still get about 21% of our power from the
> grid, but because the time of use metering is so advantageous to solar
> generation, we stay well ahead of the power company as far as $ are
> concerned.
>
>> like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my
>> house. Getting my wife's approval, and to really justify it to myself,
>> I need to have confidence that it is a good investment. Anybody done
>> any work on this?
>>
>> I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas. Standard 2x4
>> construction. Gas heat, waterheat, and stove. Already switching to
>> compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out. .......
>
> My house is 2 separate building 16 ft apart totaling 4000 sq. ft. (A
> 1200 sq. ft mother in law house behind the main house) We have 3 central
> A/C units and are all electric except for heat.
>
>> ....................No programmable
>> thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.
>
>
> I am retired and am home most of the time, but I do use the setbacks,
> but not over 80 daytime summer or under 67 winter days, 63 for sleeping.
> (it hasn't been above 50 here for 8 days in the 30s at night) The only
> reason I mention that is to correct some misconceptions about California.
>
>>
>> I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody
>> wants to lend a hand or advise.
>>
>> What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save
>> money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle. My wife
>> will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our
>> lifestyle will be essential.
>>
> Good luck, the WAF factor is important, the solar system took a 2 year
> sales approach, now she brags about it, but still kids me a lot about
> things like the astronaut recognition factor
Posted by Tim Keating on December 17, 2004, 8:16 am
On 16 Dec 2004 14:04:28 -0800, chrisvillar@hotmail.com wrote:
>I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent
>of the grid, etc. Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving
>measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years). I'd
>like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my
>house. Getting my wife's approval, and to really justify it to myself,
>I need to have confidence that it is a good investment. Anybody done
>any work on this?
What makes sense depends on many factors
1. What are your current costs of energy & consumption.
2. And what you think they may be in the future!!
(This consideration can completely shift the balance.)
>I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas. Standard 2x4
>construction. Gas heat, waterheat, and stove. Already switching to
>compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out. No programmable
I would swap out the incandescent bulbs used for more than one
hour a day immediately. If need be, swap them with compact
fluorescent that you've already installed, but are used less
frequently.
>thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.
Purchase a new thermostat anyway.
A digital thermostat will be way more accurate than the old mercury
based ones. Resulting in a more consistent house environment
(comfort). I chose a lower end LUX brand thermostat, simple to use,
with a large LCD temp readout.
>I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody
>wants to lend a hand or advise.
As for saving electricity ... start out by measuring and looking
for the energy wasters.. A "Kill-o-watt" meter is a handy tool for
finding them. see
http://www.contractor-books.com/P3/Kill-A-Watt.htm
In one instance, I found that my SAT receiver and other A/V
components (DVD/HDTV receiver/antenna rotor/antenna amp) were drawing
significant amounts of power when shut off/idle. So, I connected
them all to the switched AC outlet of my A/V surround sound
amp/receiver.
The A/V Surround sound amp/receiver draws less than one watt when
turned off via remote control. Verses the ~40 watts for all the other
items if they were left to connected to normal outlets.
Centralize and place all battery chargers(cell phone/cordless
drill/vac/etc) on switched outlet strip. Turn outlet strip on only
when charging one of the batteries/appliances.
Run of the mill PC's and CRT monitors can be real power hogs.
I've since switch most of my daily computer activities to laptops and
LCD's monitors. Here is a link to an archived post I made about using
energy saving PC's & LCD's.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/7bb8a21e5d51341b
---
If your existing refrigerators is more than seven years old,
consider purchasing a new "energy star" rated unit,
Note: Don't always follow the energy star annual usage tags.
They don't always reflect typical use by the consumer. I.E. No
provision for through the door ice dispenser, but is a big gain for
the consumer since they don't have to open the freezer door to get
ice.
Here is one my archived comments on the refrigerator selection.
(Some researched details on how energy star ratings are measured.)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/91fd2e30818a8ebe
Purchase a front loading washer. Frigidaire makes some reliable
units. ~500$ range
1. Uses a fraction of the HW when compared to a top loader.
2. Final spin is much faster, resulting in dryer clothes which need
less drying time/energy usage.
3. Can do really large loads. Comforters.. etc..
(also resulting in fewer loads if you plan properly. )
Here is a archived post made previously for front loader for potential
front loader energy savings..
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/f1ad773b89b2b749
>What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save
>money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle. My wife
>will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our
>lifestyle will be essential.
This is a small lifestyle change, but the savings can be
significant and result better indoor air quality.
Purchase an accurate indoor/outdoor digital thermometer.
Open/close your screened doors, windows, drapes more frequently.
Proper planing can significantly reduce the need for heating
&cooling. Buy some box fans for spring/fall usage.
For example, even though nighttime temps have dropped into the low
40's, I have yet to turn on a heater this season. In the morning, I
open drapes/blinds and catch the morning/afternoon sun. Close them
when they no longer get direct sun. Similar actions apply when
temps get warmer.. open windows at night, turn on fans to pull in cool
night air, turn fans off and close windows in mid morning as temp
raises. Then Coast through the heat of the day..
Posted by Tim Keating on December 17, 2004, 8:29 am
On 16 Dec 2004 14:04:28 -0800, chrisvillar@hotmail.com wrote:
>I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent
>of the grid, etc. Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving
>measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years). I'd
>like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my
>house. Getting my wife's approval, and to really justify it to myself,
>I need to have confidence that it is a good investment. Anybody done
>any work on this?
What makes sense depends on many factors
1. What are your current costs of energy & consumption.
2. And what you think they may be in the future!!
(This consideration can completely shift the balance.)
>I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas. Standard 2x4
>construction. Gas heat, waterheat, and stove. Already switching to
>compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out. No programmable
I would swap out the incandescent bulbs used for more than one
hour a day immediately. If need be, swap them with compact
fluorescent that you've already installed, but are used less
frequently.
>thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.
Purchase a new thermostat anyway.
A digital thermostat will be way more accurate than the old mercury
based ones. Resulting in a more consistent house environment
(comfort). I chose a lower end LUX brand thermostat, simple to use,
with a large LCD temp readout.
>I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody
>wants to lend a hand or advise.
As for saving electricity ... start out by measuring and looking
for the energy wasters.. A "Kill-o-watt" meter is a handy tool for
finding them. see
http://www.contractor-books.com/P3/Kill-A-Watt.htm
In one instance, I found that my SAT receiver and other A/V
components (DVD/HDTV receiver/antenna rotor/antenna amp) were drawing
significant amounts of power when shut off/idle. So, I connected
them all to the switched AC outlet of my A/V surround sound
amp/receiver.
The A/V Surround sound amp/receiver draws less than one watt when
turned off via remote control. Verses the ~40 watts for all the other
items if they were left to connected to normal outlets.
Centralize and place all battery chargers(cell phone/cordless
drill/vac/etc) on switched outlet strip. Turn outlet strip on only
when charging one of the batteries/appliances.
Run of the mill PC's and CRT monitors can be real power hogs.
I've since switch most of my daily computer activities to laptops and
LCD's monitors. Here is a link to an archived post I made about using
energy saving PC's & LCD's.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/7bb8a21e5d51341b
---
If your existing refrigerators is more than seven years old,
consider purchasing a new "energy star" rated unit,
Note: Don't always follow the energy star annual usage tags.
They don't always reflect typical use by the consumer. I.E. No
provision for through the door ice dispenser, but is a big gain for
the consumer since they don't have to open the freezer door to get
ice.
Here is one my archived comments on the refrigerator selection.
(Some researched details on how energy star ratings are measured.)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/91fd2e30818a8ebe
Purchase a front loading washer. Frigidaire makes some reliable
units. ~500$ range
1. Uses a fraction of the HW when compared to a top loader.
2. Final spin is much faster, resulting in dryer clothes which need
less drying time/energy usage.
3. Can do really large loads. Comforters.. etc..
(also resulting in fewer loads if you plan properly. )
Here is a link to an archived post about potential energy savings
using a front loading washing machine.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/f1ad773b89b2b749
>What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save
>money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle. My wife
>will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our
>lifestyle will be essential.
This is a small lifestyle change, but the savings can be
significant and result better indoor air quality.
Purchase an accurate indoor/outdoor digital thermometer.
Open/close your screened doors, windows, drapes more frequently.
Proper planing can significantly reduce the need for heating
&cooling. Buy some box fans for spring/fall usage.
For example, even though nighttime temps have dropped into the low
40's, I have yet to turn on a heater this season. In the morning, I
open drapes/blinds and catch the morning/afternoon sun. Close them
when they no longer get direct sun. Similar actions apply when
temps get warmer.. open windows at night, turn on fans to pull in cool
night air, turn fans off and close windows in mid morning as temp
raises. Then Coast through the heat of the day..
XML site map
> of the grid, etc. Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving
> measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).