Posted by z on March 21, 2008, 1:16 am
http://www.jeffersonfreestate.org/hh/
The beast is on its first real long term test. 4 hours running and
counting.
Mechanically we're good. I came up with a pretty sweet shaft stabalizer
and bearing solution and its running full bore with very little vibration
compared to before.
I drove the 60 miles to pick up those Centennial batteries i ordered and
the guy said they quit selling them and gave me the choice of 'werker'
l16s or trojans. The werkers were like 60 bucks cheaper a pop and
weighed about the same. Needless to say I couldn't afford the good
batteries so i went with them.
so far so good. they 'werk'
You guys know i'm a novice at this stuff and finally figured out I
couldn't ever get the damn altnerator to spin fast enough to produce more
than 12 volts.. so unless the batteries were seriously low I couldn't
charge.
I did some reading and with two six volt batteries hooked together I
wired the hydro into one of the six volters.. sending about 10 volts into
it. Like magic the system started charging.
I've read this is OK but i'd much rather do it right. Today I ran the
hydro at full bore and watched my pond.. it didn't even blink.. still
over flowing, so clearly I can increase the pipe size at least during the
winter. Thats on my list.. take what i've done and dump way more water
and add jets and increase the RPM on that alternator.
For now its good.
I still can't tell exactly how much power is being produced. Like I say
on the web page I ran off the battery bank all last night so I was down
to 11.4 (according to the xantrex c40 monitor) and tonight I'm just
running the hdyro. Its been four hours and now i'm reading 12.4 so its
doing something good. These are 2 six volt l16 equiv batteries.
Also finally you get the drag on the alternator when you hit the 'on'
switch.. it drags down bigtime.
I was such an idiot before thinking that producing 11.5 volts would
charge a 12 volt battery.. DOH!
thats a newbie for ye
Thats all for now. Thanks again for all the advice. I'm sure my system
isn't the best but thanks to you all its much better than it would have
been without you.
-zachary
Posted by Eric Sears on March 21, 2008, 7:08 am
>I did some reading and with two six volt batteries hooked together I
>wired the hydro into one of the six volters.. sending about 10 volts into
>it. Like magic the system started charging.
As someone else commented, charging just one 6 volt battery is a
no-no.
When you said they were "hooked together", did you mean in parallel? -
but in that case you sent "10 volts " into both of them - well
..before you actually connected them to the hydro. Then reconnect in
series to use them
>I've read this is OK but i'd much rather do it right. Today I ran the
>hydro at full bore and watched my pond.. it didn't even blink.. still
>over flowing, so clearly I can increase the pipe size at least during the
>winter. Thats on my list.. take what i've done and dump way more water
>and add jets and increase the RPM on that alternator.
As I have tried to explain before, the amount of water (size of jets)
should not normally increase the speed of the wheel (runner) by a huge
amount - unless you have a lot of losses which you have not accounted
for. It may even reduce the speed by causing more pipe loss at the
higher flow.
You still have no idea how much POWER you are producing (no matter at
what voltage). Have you tried putting a 12v bulb on the output of the
"alternator" (without the battery connected) and seeing what voltage
is produced? (I think the alt in perm magnet?).
The output of the alternator (at dc), ought to be about 24v before you
connect it to the battery. It should then drop to the battery voltage
- and hopefully produce some power!
If you cannot get the rpm up (by finding some losses), then either you
will need to increase the head (usually not possible - and anyway you
should not need to from previous info), or use a smaller "wheel"
(runner) (again should not be necessary), or change you
alternator/generator in some way.
Please describe your alternator again. I think it is a 3-phase,
permanent magnet device. There are two ways of wiring it (usually),
either Y or Delta. One will double the voltage. Which way is it wired?
If your current "runaway" rpm is close to what you would expect, then
you can add jets, or increase jet size until the cows come home - but
you will never get more rpm out of it. The rpm is governed by two
factors (neglecting losses) - the "head" of water, and the diameter of
the runner.. Increasing jet size increases power, but not rpm
(basically).
>For now its good.
>I still can't tell exactly how much power is being produced. Like I say
>on the web page I ran off the battery bank all last night so I was down
>to 11.4 (according to the xantrex c40 monitor) and tonight I'm just
>running the hdyro. Its been four hours and now i'm reading 12.4 so its
>doing something good. These are 2 six volt l16 equiv batteries.
I would be VERY worried if I lowered a battery to 11.4 volts for any
length of time. I would call that "dead flat". Its definitely not the
treatment for a new battery. Aim never to let it get anywhere below
12v (actually I would never let a new battery get much below 12.3v,
when not under load).
>Also finally you get the drag on the alternator when you hit the 'on'
>switch.. it drags down bigtime.
>I was such an idiot before thinking that producing 11.5 volts would
>charge a 12 volt battery.. DOH!
Again - its not 12v you need - its more like 24v (open circuit) for
your type of hydro system
>thats a newbie for ye
>Thats all for now. Thanks again for all the advice. I'm sure my system
>isn't the best but thanks to you all its much better than it would have
>been without you.
Maybe so - but I might begin to cry soon if I hear any more about
expensive batteries being ruined!
I do hope you get those batteries charged up - and then sort out
exactly how much current your hydro system can actually put out.
Eric Sears.
Posted by BobG on March 21, 2008, 8:16 am
Solarconverters makes a battery charger that takes a variable input
voltage... this might be a good item to look at
Posted by Eeyore on March 21, 2008, 9:15 am
BobG wrote:
> Solarconverters makes a battery charger that takes a variable input
> voltage... this might be a good item to look at
I agree totally.
Graham
Posted by Ulysses on March 21, 2008, 12:24 pm
> >
> >I did some reading and with two six volt batteries hooked together I
> >wired the hydro into one of the six volters.. sending about 10 volts into
> >it. Like magic the system started charging.
> As someone else commented, charging just one 6 volt battery is a
> no-no.
> When you said they were "hooked together", did you mean in parallel? -
> but in that case you sent "10 volts " into both of them - well
> ..before you actually connected them to the hydro. Then reconnect in
> series to use them
> >
> >I've read this is OK but i'd much rather do it right. Today I ran the
> >hydro at full bore and watched my pond.. it didn't even blink.. still
> >over flowing, so clearly I can increase the pipe size at least during the
> >winter. Thats on my list.. take what i've done and dump way more water
> >and add jets and increase the RPM on that alternator.
> As I have tried to explain before, the amount of water (size of jets)
> should not normally increase the speed of the wheel (runner) by a huge
> amount - unless you have a lot of losses which you have not accounted
> for. It may even reduce the speed by causing more pipe loss at the
> higher flow.
> You still have no idea how much POWER you are producing (no matter at
> what voltage). Have you tried putting a 12v bulb on the output of the
> "alternator" (without the battery connected) and seeing what voltage
> is produced? (I think the alt in perm magnet?).
> The output of the alternator (at dc), ought to be about 24v before you
> connect it to the battery. It should then drop to the battery voltage
> - and hopefully produce some power!
> If you cannot get the rpm up (by finding some losses), then either you
> will need to increase the head (usually not possible - and anyway you
> should not need to from previous info), or use a smaller "wheel"
> (runner) (again should not be necessary), or change you
> alternator/generator in some way.
> Please describe your alternator again. I think it is a 3-phase,
> permanent magnet device. There are two ways of wiring it (usually),
> either Y or Delta. One will double the voltage. Which way is it wired?
> If your current "runaway" rpm is close to what you would expect, then
> you can add jets, or increase jet size until the cows come home - but
> you will never get more rpm out of it. The rpm is governed by two
> factors (neglecting losses) - the "head" of water, and the diameter of
> the runner.. Increasing jet size increases power, but not rpm
> (basically).
I was thinking that his problem might be that the alternator is slowing down
once a load is applied and that more water might give him enough power to
reduce this. Perhaps if he can just get back the rpms that he's losing.
> >
> >For now its good.
> >
> >I still can't tell exactly how much power is being produced. Like I say
> >on the web page I ran off the battery bank all last night so I was down
> >to 11.4 (according to the xantrex c40 monitor) and tonight I'm just
> >running the hdyro. Its been four hours and now i'm reading 12.4 so its
> >doing something good. These are 2 six volt l16 equiv batteries.
> I would be VERY worried if I lowered a battery to 11.4 volts for any
> length of time. I would call that "dead flat". Its definitely not the
> treatment for a new battery. Aim never to let it get anywhere below
> 12v (actually I would never let a new battery get much below 12.3v,
> when not under load).
> >
> >Also finally you get the drag on the alternator when you hit the 'on'
> >switch.. it drags down bigtime.
> >
> >I was such an idiot before thinking that producing 11.5 volts would
> >charge a 12 volt battery.. DOH!
> Again - its not 12v you need - its more like 24v (open circuit) for
> your type of hydro system
> >
> >thats a newbie for ye
> >
> >Thats all for now. Thanks again for all the advice. I'm sure my system
> >isn't the best but thanks to you all its much better than it would have
> >been without you.
> Maybe so - but I might begin to cry soon if I hear any more about
> expensive batteries being ruined!
> I do hope you get those batteries charged up - and then sort out
> exactly how much current your hydro system can actually put out.
> Eric Sears.
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>wired the hydro into one of the six volters.. sending about 10 volts into
>it. Like magic the system started charging.