Posted by z on March 7, 2009, 5:02 am
@newsfe13.iad:
> nice microhydro installation in chile.
>
> http://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
>
> home built controller. wound own transformers. 5~8 kw output.
>
> (also awesomely cool volcano-erupting photos)
>
> http://ludens.cl/paradise/llaima/llaima.html
>
>
> b.w.
>
>
Very impressive. I found that site a while back when I was first trying to
build mine. HOLY CRAP.. it makes my small effort look like cheeze wiz
Posted by Neon John on March 7, 2009, 4:58 pm
>Very impressive. I found that site a while back when I was first trying to
>build mine. HOLY CRAP.. it makes my small effort look like cheeze wiz
Maybe so but I bet your return on investment is far better. He has a
small fortune tied up in that system, even with 3rd world labor.
I see several problem areas ahead too, not the least of which is
running a machine designed for horizontal orientation in the vertical.
Absent a retrofitting of proper thrust bearings, the bearing life on
that generator will be minimal. With that kind of mechanical power
available, I just hope that a bearing failure doesn't tear up the
whole machine.
My other MAJOR concern is no over-speed protection. He's relying
solely on that electronic dump load controller for speed control. If
that thing fails or trips off-line, generator disassembly is likely.
I'm impressed with the guy's audacity for tackling such a project and
for his "f*ck the 1st world" lifestyle in general but I am NOT
impressed with the hydro project itself. I see lots of maintenance
and failures ahead.
John
Posted by Gordon on March 8, 2009, 10:00 pm
>
>
>>
>>Very impressive. I found that site a while back when I was first
>>trying to build mine. HOLY CRAP.. it makes my small effort look like
>>cheeze wiz
>
> Maybe so but I bet your return on investment is far better. He has a
> small fortune tied up in that system, even with 3rd world labor.
>
> I see several problem areas ahead too, not the least of which is
> running a machine designed for horizontal orientation in the vertical.
> Absent a retrofitting of proper thrust bearings, the bearing life on
> that generator will be minimal. With that kind of mechanical power
> available, I just hope that a bearing failure doesn't tear up the
> whole machine.
>
> My other MAJOR concern is no over-speed protection. He's relying
> solely on that electronic dump load controller for speed control. If
> that thing fails or trips off-line, generator disassembly is likely.
>
> I'm impressed with the guy's audacity for tackling such a project and
> for his "f*ck the 1st world" lifestyle in general but I am NOT
> impressed with the hydro project itself. I see lots of maintenance
> and failures ahead.
>
> John
>
From what I understand, his powerhouse is a fair walk from his
dewelling. I bet he gets tired of walking up and down that hill several
times a day to turn off valves and such. If it was me, I would have
moterized valves, a remote control panal in the house, and an overspeed
shutdown, and I would tie the load dump controler into one or more of
the motorized valves to reduce the machanical input instead of dumping
the output.
Posted by William Wixon on March 16, 2009, 1:45 pm
manfred sent me a message with replies/comments about some of the comments
posted to my post about his hydro installation, i'm forwarding them to the
group. (<gulp> <cringe>)
> nice microhydro installation in chile.
> http://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
> home built controller. wound own transformers. 5~8 kw output.
> (also awesomely cool volcano-erupting photos)
> http://ludens.cl/paradise/llaima/llaima.html
> b.w.
> Hi Bill,
> True, I could have damage if the machine overspeeds because of regulator
> failure. But to limit the risk, the turbine is designed to limit the speed
> to not too much above the nominal speed. Should the worst happen, a spare
> generator is on hand, and also spare turbine spoons. The generator is
> actually the cheapest part of the whole system, so it doesn't pay to
> invest in lots of protection for it.
> The bearings operating in vertical position should last a good time,
> because they are very large, and the axial load on them is less than
> 1/10th the maximum recommended value. The bearings are rated for 5000kg
> radial and 500kg axial load. They are intended for driving the generator
> with a highly tensioned flat belt.
> It makes no sense to control the water instead of using the dump load
> method. The motorized valves would be expensive and slow, and the water is
> free and available. Fast valves anyway are not usable, because of
> waterhammer.
> Yes, I have a lot of money tied up in the system, and I hope to break even
> someday. It's definitely not "free" power.
> Permits are not that much simpler in Chile than the US. I'm still doing
> paperwork. Actually a lawyer has been doing most of the paperwork for me.
> I definitely don't have to walk to the turbine site several times a day.
> Actually, it's more like once a month. Still, remote control would be
> nice, and is planned for the future.
> The weakest parts of the system right now are the water intake, which is
> still provisional and very vulnerable; and the penstock where it crosses
> the creek, over a makeshift bridge and unstable terrain. The machinery is
> solid and reliable compared to that.
Posted by wmbjkREMOVE on March 16, 2009, 2:33 pm
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:45:36 -0500, "William Wixon"
>manfred sent me a message with replies/comments about some of the comments
>posted to my post about his hydro installation, i'm forwarding them to the
>group. (<gulp> <cringe>)
>> nice microhydro installation in chile.
>>
>> http://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
>>
>> home built controller. wound own transformers. 5~8 kw output.
>>
>> (also awesomely cool volcano-erupting photos)
>>
>> http://ludens.cl/paradise/llaima/llaima.html
>>
>>
>> b.w.
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>>
>> True, I could have damage if the machine overspeeds because of regulator
>> failure. But to limit the risk, the turbine is designed to limit the speed
>> to not too much above the nominal speed. Should the worst happen, a spare
>> generator is on hand, and also spare turbine spoons. The generator is
>> actually the cheapest part of the whole system, so it doesn't pay to
>> invest in lots of protection for it.
>>
>> The bearings operating in vertical position should last a good time,
>> because they are very large, and the axial load on them is less than
>> 1/10th the maximum recommended value. The bearings are rated for 5000kg
>> radial and 500kg axial load. They are intended for driving the generator
>> with a highly tensioned flat belt.
>>
>> It makes no sense to control the water instead of using the dump load
>> method. The motorized valves would be expensive and slow, and the water is
>> free and available. Fast valves anyway are not usable, because of
>> waterhammer.
>>
>> Yes, I have a lot of money tied up in the system, and I hope to break even
>> someday. It's definitely not "free" power.
>>
>> Permits are not that much simpler in Chile than the US. I'm still doing
>> paperwork. Actually a lawyer has been doing most of the paperwork for me.
>>
>> I definitely don't have to walk to the turbine site several times a day.
>> Actually, it's more like once a month. Still, remote control would be
>> nice, and is planned for the future.
>>
>> The weakest parts of the system right now are the water intake, which is
>> still provisional and very vulnerable; and the penstock where it crosses
>> the creek, over a makeshift bridge and unstable terrain. The machinery is
>> solid and reliable compared to that.
Based on the overall thoroughness of the project I already assumed
that he'd have answers for any criticisms. I'm not sure he's correctly
relating to US bureaucracy though. Here, paperwork generally comes
before construction, enforced by stop-work orders. Even in our county
where building permits weren't required outside of cities until
recently, the code weenies are hard at work trying to justify their
continued employment. I visited an unusual and high-quality project
recently. As tough as some of the technical problems were, the owner
reported that his most difficult issues have been with know-nothing
building inspectors who seem to believe that it's their job to drag
down anyone more ambitious than themselves. This particular owner had
the fire to survive a couple years of harassment, but a lot of others
would have tired and given up.
Wayne
>
> http://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
>
> home built controller. wound own transformers. 5~8 kw output.
>
> (also awesomely cool volcano-erupting photos)
>
> http://ludens.cl/paradise/llaima/llaima.html
>
>
> b.w.
>
>