Posted by Bob F on February 13, 2008, 9:43 pm
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:46:59 -0600, "Don Young"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Someone with a lathe capable of metric threading
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20tpi will work well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>could whip out an adapter
>>>>>>>for you real easily. Or an adapter could be built up with one or
>>>>>>>more nuts for the threaded section. The latter would be more
>>>>>>>difficult to make run true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The adapter should be a tight fit on the plain (true) part of the
>>>>>> shaft. Easiest way to make a threaded version might be to turn a
>>>>>> bushing with a threaded end, weld on a stub, then turn the stub
>>>>>> true. But I think the threads could be eliminated in favor of
>>>>>> press fit, loctite, or set screws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot for the advice (should have asked here before starting
>>>>> this dang thing) drilling and tapping the coupler did the trick.
>>>>> Stable at 1000 RPM!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> update: http://www.jeffersonfreestate.org/hh/
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the pictures, it looks like you are using a corrugated
>>>> copper connecting line to run the water in to the jets. You would
>>>> probably be better off to use soft copper tubing for this to avoid
>>>> the turbulance the corrugations will produce.
>>>
>>> Yeah I might swap that out, but those were handy and had the
>>> fittings. I could probably just move to that clear poly but I don't
>>> have the fittings for doing that on hand.
>>>
>>> I need to do some other stuff first.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any idea how much current you are getting?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right around 12 volts .. I think my multi-meter is messed up because
>>> It won't read amps at the moment, its always zero. But I hooked a
>>> dead car battery up and it from round 4 volts to 7.5 after 10 mins of
>>> running or so. I don't want to run it longer until I pipe in a place
>>> for the excess water to go .. back down the hill into the stream.
>>> Its been fine for testing but when you run it for a while that water
>>> needs a place to go!
>>>
>>> Once again that was a detail I didn't want to bother with till I
>>> thought the generator part would actually work.
>>
>> If the meter won't read amps, it is probably because a fuse is blown.
>> Unless your meter has an unusually high amp scale, it will probably
>> quickly blow the fuse with this kind of a generator.
>>
>> What was the RPM when the dead battery was chargeing? Did it slow a
>> lot?
>>
>> Bob F
>>
>>
>>
> Man I'm pretty clueless about this stuff, but looking at the power curve
> plotted for this alternator:
> http://www.windbluepower.com/Wind_Blue_Motor_Hydro_Permanent_Magnet_Alter
> nator_p/dc-500.htm
> at roughly 12 volts I should be making 80 or so amps??
> They say '
> # Reaches 12 Volts output at 1200 RPMs and the voltage keeps going up
> from there. (see chart below).
> # Produces 120 Amps into a 12 Volt battery at 2000 RPMs'
> so if that is true i'm making way more amps than my little crappy multi-
> meter could handle. No wonder it blew up.
> I have the cheapest xantrex controller which is rated only to 35 amps so
> thats the max it can take.
> But I might be out to lunch too. Wouldn't surprise me.
> I might spring for the LCD monitor to go with the controller -- that is
> supposed to give you a lot more information than the blinking LED
> 'M/R-100 - optional LCD - backlit, alphanumeric display showing battery
> voltage, DC amperage, cumulative amp hours, and amp hours since last
> reset - remote includes 50' (15 m) or 100' (30.5 m) cable'
> I was going to get one of those to have in the house to keep an eye on
> things eventually
> So i dono how many amps.. could be a lot, could be zip!
This sounds like a better approach. No multimeter is likely to go to the 35 amps
of your controller, much less the 150 amps of the generator. You could use part
of your wiring as a shunt resister. If you measure the voltage across the wire's
length at a known current, you can determine the current from the voltage during
operation. Twice the voltage would mean twice the current.
You probably need to be careful you don't get this working too well. Your
controller won't take it. Any idea what it will do if too much current is
presented?
What you need next is an electrically operated valve to regulate the flow
depending on the need.
I sure wish I had the water source to try this project.
Bob F
Posted by Charles on February 12, 2008, 9:43 pm
z wrote:
> Got the thing running this weekend
Zach, you get a few days of nice weather and you go to town, don't you!
I don't think it's mentioned on your Website so at some point you might
address the question of why you are running with a vertical rather than a
horizontal shaft and how that affects the selection of bearings.
I saw a similar but horizontal installation on the Invention Nation
television show a few weeks ago. That generator was mounted solidly on the
floor of a shed similar to yours. It had dual nozzles and was a screamer (in
a good way).
The beautiful thing about hydro is that it is full-time. No waiting for the
wind or the sun to come up.
--
Chuck
Posted by z on February 12, 2008, 11:20 pm
> z wrote:
>> Got the thing running this weekend
>
> Zach, you get a few days of nice weather and you go to town, don't
> you!
>
> I don't think it's mentioned on your Website so at some point you
> might address the question of why you are running with a vertical
> rather than a horizontal shaft and how that affects the selection of
> bearings.
>
heh. Yeah its been a hell of a winter!
So why horizontal? The primary reason was that I wanted a direct drive
setup rather than a pully and I thought about how best to keep water way
from the altnerator, so gravity seemed to be on my side by doing it this
way. Also I had the barrel which made water management really easy -- it
flows out the bottom and keeps the splash down and also lets me aim the
jets easily. Dono really.. just the way it worked out. I cut a little
door in the barrel so you can have a look and see how its doing in there
and then you can shut it up and let it rip!
Today I drilled and tapped the coupler so tomorrow we'll see if its going
to be any good.
Also ordered a teflon bearing which i'll add to the mix when it gets
here. Going to fab a mount and all that, but for now its still about
testing stuff
> I saw a similar but horizontal installation on the Invention Nation
> television show a few weeks ago. That generator was mounted solidly on
> the floor of a shed similar to yours. It had dual nozzles and was a
> screamer (in a good way).
cool. I'll have to see if I can get that channel.
>
> The beautiful thing about hydro is that it is full-time. No waiting
> for the wind or the sun to come up.
Yeah if you've got the water!
Posted by Charles on February 13, 2008, 12:07 pm
z wrote:
> Yeah its been a hell of a winter!
Too much La Nina.
> So why horizontal? The primary reason was that I wanted a direct
> drive setup rather than a pully...
You need to put that (and all the rest) in a microhydro blog. Drop in a few
Google Adwords to pay for generator parts. We also need a video complete
with the sound of a turning system.
>> I saw a similar but horizontal installation on the Invention Nation
>> television show a few weeks ago.
> cool. I'll have to see if I can get that channel.
It's on the Science Channel:
http://science.discovery.com/fansites/invention-nation/invention-nation.html
I think it was the Sun Power episode. "Chris, Nobu and Micah battle veggie
engine trouble on the road to exploring solar concentrators, micro-hydro
power generation, state-of-the art lighting alternatives and solar ovens."
It'll be rebroadcast March 3rd, 4th, 5th and 9th.
>> The beautiful thing about hydro is that it is full-time.
> Yeah if you've got the water!
You're lucky in that department.
--
Chuck
Posted by z on February 13, 2008, 7:21 pm
> z wrote:
>> Yeah its been a hell of a winter!
>
> Too much La Nina.
>
>> So why horizontal? The primary reason was that I wanted a direct
>> drive setup rather than a pully...
>
> You need to put that (and all the rest) in a microhydro blog. Drop in
> a few Google Adwords to pay for generator parts. We also need a video
> complete with the sound of a turning system.
heh we'll see. I"m on dialup so video is a pain in the arse. As for
blogs I don't feel like installing a CMS on my server. Its just as easy
to edit the thing directly. Suppose I could make it nicer and add a
comments thing easily enough
as for google i kinda doubt id make that much money man.. also who wants
to see adverts?
>
>>> I saw a similar but horizontal installation on the Invention Nation
>>> television show a few weeks ago.
>> cool. I'll have to see if I can get that channel.
>
> It's on the Science Channel:
> http://science.discovery.com/fansites/invention-nation/invention-nation
> .html I think it was the Sun Power episode. "Chris, Nobu and Micah
> battle veggie engine trouble on the road to exploring solar
> concentrators, micro-hydro power generation, state-of-the art lighting
> alternatives and solar ovens." It'll be rebroadcast March 3rd, 4th,
> 5th and 9th.
ahh bummer. I have to upgrade my service to get that one.
>
>>> The beautiful thing about hydro is that it is full-time.
>> Yeah if you've got the water!
>
> You're lucky in that department.
>
Yeah still a little more work to do in that regard. The pond doesn't
fill fast enough when its not actually raining. There is a stream near
by I just have to plumb in more pipe. Did not want to bother until I was
convinced this whole micro-hyro thing would actually work.
But it seemingly does! Today I ran a 1000 RPM test with no shaft wobble.
Tapping and drilling the coupler did the trick
http://www.jeffersonfreestate.org/hh
cheers
-z
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:46:59 -0600, "Don Young"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Someone with a lathe capable of metric threading
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20tpi will work well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>could whip out an adapter
>>>>>>>for you real easily. Or an adapter could be built up with one or
>>>>>>>more nuts for the threaded section. The latter would be more
>>>>>>>difficult to make run true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The adapter should be a tight fit on the plain (true) part of the
>>>>>> shaft. Easiest way to make a threaded version might be to turn a
>>>>>> bushing with a threaded end, weld on a stub, then turn the stub
>>>>>> true. But I think the threads could be eliminated in favor of
>>>>>> press fit, loctite, or set screws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot for the advice (should have asked here before starting
>>>>> this dang thing) drilling and tapping the coupler did the trick.
>>>>> Stable at 1000 RPM!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> update: http://www.jeffersonfreestate.org/hh/
>>>>
>>>> Looking at the pictures, it looks like you are using a corrugated
>>>> copper connecting line to run the water in to the jets. You would
>>>> probably be better off to use soft copper tubing for this to avoid
>>>> the turbulance the corrugations will produce.
>>>
>>> Yeah I might swap that out, but those were handy and had the
>>> fittings. I could probably just move to that clear poly but I don't
>>> have the fittings for doing that on hand.
>>>
>>> I need to do some other stuff first.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any idea how much current you are getting?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right around 12 volts .. I think my multi-meter is messed up because
>>> It won't read amps at the moment, its always zero. But I hooked a
>>> dead car battery up and it from round 4 volts to 7.5 after 10 mins of
>>> running or so. I don't want to run it longer until I pipe in a place
>>> for the excess water to go .. back down the hill into the stream.
>>> Its been fine for testing but when you run it for a while that water
>>> needs a place to go!
>>>
>>> Once again that was a detail I didn't want to bother with till I
>>> thought the generator part would actually work.
>>
>> If the meter won't read amps, it is probably because a fuse is blown.
>> Unless your meter has an unusually high amp scale, it will probably
>> quickly blow the fuse with this kind of a generator.
>>
>> What was the RPM when the dead battery was chargeing? Did it slow a
>> lot?
>>
>> Bob F
>>
>>
>>
> Man I'm pretty clueless about this stuff, but looking at the power curve
> plotted for this alternator:
> http://www.windbluepower.com/Wind_Blue_Motor_Hydro_Permanent_Magnet_Alter
> nator_p/dc-500.htm
> at roughly 12 volts I should be making 80 or so amps??
> They say '
> # Reaches 12 Volts output at 1200 RPMs and the voltage keeps going up
> from there. (see chart below).
> # Produces 120 Amps into a 12 Volt battery at 2000 RPMs'
> so if that is true i'm making way more amps than my little crappy multi-
> meter could handle. No wonder it blew up.
> I have the cheapest xantrex controller which is rated only to 35 amps so
> thats the max it can take.
> But I might be out to lunch too. Wouldn't surprise me.
> I might spring for the LCD monitor to go with the controller -- that is
> supposed to give you a lot more information than the blinking LED
> 'M/R-100 - optional LCD - backlit, alphanumeric display showing battery
> voltage, DC amperage, cumulative amp hours, and amp hours since last
> reset - remote includes 50' (15 m) or 100' (30.5 m) cable'
> I was going to get one of those to have in the house to keep an eye on
> things eventually
> So i dono how many amps.. could be a lot, could be zip!