Posted by z on January 10, 2008, 10:53 am
I finally got my shed together and began really messing around with the
pelton wheel turbine gizmo i've been working on.
So far i'm happy enough with the general design. Water management is
certainly not a problem, but i've hit a few more issues.
Successes:
1) the new method for aiming the jets is good. I used flexible copper
tubes right before the jets so I can give them a little bend to get them
aimed right on. These are the same kind of pipe you'd use to hook up a
water heater or similar. Then there are just angle brackets on the
outside to help keep them on line.
2) Plenty of water to use: its been a hell of a winter!
3) Shed lasted through one of the worst wind storms we've had in a few
years! Nothing quite like building on a blue clay steep assed hill in the
middle of winter. I ended up just splitting some white ceder posts and
sinking them deep into the ground to make a basic tin shed. That tin
might blow off, but the shed will never get tipped over. Also invested
in a good pair of muck boots .. it was seriously muddy and nasty out
there! Now I've got a semi-dry area to play with the hydro.
Not so success:
1) Not enough RPM. I think i'm only hitting about 500 rpm rather than
the 1000 i was shooting for. The PMA i bought makes about a volt per 100
rpm and now i'm thinking i should have maybe got another one for lower
RPM.
2) Spin cycle effect -- turns out the shaft coupler isn't centered quite
right so the shaft does a little wobble while its spinning. Enough that
(although it works) i'm paranoid about running it for a long time and
risking screwing up my spendy PMA.
3) Little splashy -- I'm getting a little more water up into the
alternator than I'd like. Its not huge amounts, but enough that i'll
need to probably address it. I mean the whole point of building the shed
was to get the thing out of the rain .. and have a place near it for
batteries and so on.
Solutions:
Here is a pre-full-assembly pic (this is from before I got it wired up
all the way) and some ideas
http://www.jeffersonfreestate.org/hh/hh_v2.jpg
1) RPM? Add a jet. I'm hoping to increase RPM by adding a third jet -- I
have enough water to run another jet so thats something to do. The
difference in speed by running on one jet compared to two is pretty
dramatic so I'm hoping another one will mean even more.
2 & 3) Spin Cycle & splash: Shorten Shaft & move jets. As many of you
pointed out the shaft is a bit long to run without a bearing. A friend
just got a milling machine so we're going to make a few more couplings
till we get it right on the money. Then i'll shorten the shaft up and
move the jets higher on the barrel (as seen in the image) with a greater
downward angle, so the water jet hits the turbine from above.
I think this will reduce the lateral stress on the PMA shaft and also
help keep the water going away from the alternator better.
So i'm off to town today to get some more plumbing supplies -- man i'm a
little tired of gluing that plastic pipe together. Every time you want
to change something you gotta cut and glue and wait. Maybe i'll switch
over to black plastic pipe.
-z
Posted by Vaughn Simon on January 10, 2008, 5:57 pm
>Hello
> I am looking for an easy and legal way to know if the power has been
>restored to my service panel after we have a power outage , we usually have
>several brown outs etc. before the power is lost completely , during the
>morning hours we can see the neighbors and street lights , after the sun
>comes up , the only way I can know if we have line power is to turn on the
>Main Breaker and see , in this area it's bad news to leave main on and a lot
>of work to turn off all the 20 amp. breakers every time we loose power , any
>idea would be appreciated .
>Thanks
>Phil
I have a surge protector installed in the meter base. It has a couple
of LED's that are on. If they are not on, it means that either I
don't have power or that the surge protector is toast.
--
Jim Rusling
More or Less Retired
Mustang, OK
http://www.rusling.org
Posted by sno on January 10, 2008, 6:45 pm
Vaughn Simon wrote:
>
>
> >3) Little splashy -- I'm getting a little more water up into the
> alternator than I'd like.
>
> If you feel that you have plenty of torque but not enough RPMs, how about
> gearing it up with a bicycle chain and a couple of sprockets? That way you
> could remove the alternator from the barrel to a drier spot, and get rid of
that
> coupling all at the same time. Of course, you would need some kind of a
> bearing for the turbine.
>
> Vaughn
Since you are playing with it anyway....how about running it in
the horizontal...with horizontal buckets and vertical shaft....
the shaft could have bearings at the top and bottom of your
barrel...and if the shaft was strong enough would not bend...
thank you for listening to my thoughts...have fun....sno
Posted by z on January 11, 2008, 10:28 pm
>
>
> Vaughn Simon wrote:
>>
>>
>> >3) Little splashy -- I'm getting a little more water up into
>> >the
>> alternator than I'd like.
>>
>> If you feel that you have plenty of torque but not enough RPMs,
>> how about
>> gearing it up with a bicycle chain and a couple of sprockets? That
>> way you could remove the alternator from the barrel to a drier spot,
>> and get rid of that coupling all at the same time. Of course, you
>> would need some kind of a bearing for the turbine.
>>
>> Vaughn
>
> Since you are playing with it anyway....how about running it in
> the horizontal...with horizontal buckets and vertical shaft....
> the shaft could have bearings at the top and bottom of your
> barrel...and if the shaft was strong enough would not bend...
>
> thank you for listening to my thoughts...have fun....sno
Actually found a coupler that will let me hook directly to the threaded
altnerator:
http://www.geoduck.com/epicenter/order.cgi?
page=power_sources_generators_and_batteries.html
Pretty cool. It should be a lot better than the bored out shaft coupler
I am using now.
Hopefully that will eliminate some of the shimmy.
-z
Posted by z on January 11, 2008, 4:50 pm
> z wrote:
> > I finally got my shed together and began really messing around with
> > the pelton wheel turbine gizmo i've been working on.
> > 2) Plenty of water to use: its been a hell of a winter!
> Yes, La Nina. On the Oregon coast you sure can tell the difference between
> it and El Nino!
> > Not so success:
> > 1) Not enough RPM.
> I would carefully examine every place up to the nozzles where you are
> introducing turbulent flow. Every junction, every 90 degree bend, every
> change of inside diameter, every valve. They all sap the strength of the
> flow. You have numerous examples in the jpg referenced. Think laminar
> flow.
> Measure the flow in gallons per minute at the nozzle. Then compare that to
> the flow rate as far back as possible toward the source. If you piping is
> efficient, there should be little difference.
Actually, unless you've got a leak somewhere, there should be _NO_
difference! :-)
The larger the bore of the feed pipe between the source and the
nozzle(s), the less the loss of energy in the feed pipe. Also, for best
efficiency of the delivery system, you need to avoid any abrupt changes
in bore diameter and changes of direction (i.e. gentle bends rather than
right angled elbow joints).
I don't have any practical experience whatsoever, but it's just basic
'fluidics' theory which has a lot in common with Ohm's Law when it comes
to the business of keeping water energy delivery losses down to an
acceptable minimum.
--
Regards, John.
Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.
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> I am looking for an easy and legal way to know if the power has been
>restored to my service panel after we have a power outage , we usually have
>several brown outs etc. before the power is lost completely , during the
>morning hours we can see the neighbors and street lights , after the sun
>comes up , the only way I can know if we have line power is to turn on the
>Main Breaker and see , in this area it's bad news to leave main on and a lot
>of work to turn off all the 20 amp. breakers every time we loose power , any
>idea would be appreciated .
>Thanks
>Phil