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Posted by Tim Williams on June 22, 2010, 7:03 pm
 



Transformer, as in, line voltage goes to a winding around a core.  SMPS =
don't have a transformer at the input, they have a bunch of stuff =
inbetween.  Physically, motors are just as transformery as transformers, =
though it's certainly a misnomer to be calling them such!

Someone should make incredibly cheap VFDs suitable for running shaded =
pole type motors and legacy transformerized equipment, then convert the =
entire house to DC.  Way better power factor for all those SMPS's...

...Of course, then your 120/240V switchable supplies all croak, which is =
still most computers.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Posted by Spehro Pefhany on June 22, 2010, 7:57 pm
 


On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:03:05 -0500, "Tim Williams"


have a transformer at the input, they have a bunch of stuff inbetween.
Physically, motors are just as transformery as transformers, though it's
certainly a misnomer to be calling them such!


motors and legacy transformerized equipment, then convert the entire house to
DC.  Way better power factor for all those SMPS's...


most computers.

Hm... I havn't bought one with a switch for quite a while.

Maybe most (all?) of the ones with active PFC are universal input?


Posted by Joel Koltner on June 22, 2010, 8:04 pm
 

"Transformer, as in, line voltage goes to a winding around a core.  SMPS don't
have a transformer at the input, they have a bunch of stuff inbetween.
Physically, motors are just as transformery as transformers, though it's
certainly a misnomer to be calling them such!"

Sure, sure... but if you take a look at the bill of materials for a PC's power
supply, a "transformer" will definitely be included, whereas for the ceiling
fan you'll only see "motor."  If someone on a web site claims to be an
"expert," I would think they'd be using terms as they're commonly used.

Perhaps the one about PC power supplies is splitting hairs.  I suppose the way
to write the response is to talk about, "directly line-connected
transformers -- 120V, 60Hz in the U.S. --" or somesuch, but perhaps that isn't
any more useful to the average reader than "power transformer."  OK, I admit
it, maybe the average person doesn't consider their PC power supply as
containing a power transformer...

"Someone should make incredibly cheap VFDs suitable for running shaded pole
type motors and legacy transformerized equipment, then convert the entire
house to DC.  Way better power factor for all those SMPS's..."

I kinda liked the idea of running the entire house off of 3 phase, 400Hz
power...

"...Of course, then your 120/240V switchable supplies all croak, which is
still most computers."

Many such supplies will work off of high-voltage DC directly, I'm told.

---Joel


Posted by Tim Williams on June 22, 2010, 11:53 pm
 


But it has to be 320VDC, not 160.  Actually, that'll probably blow one =
capacitor (and might reverse the other one!).

I can't imagine PFC supplies would have a problem, though some =
controllers may get confused without AC input.  If they stop PFC-ing, =
voltage drops out and you get the same problem as before.  Most of those =
run at 400VDC link, so you'd need even more in that case.

Tim


--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Posted by JosephKK on June 24, 2010, 12:04 pm
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:03:05 -0500, "Tim Williams"


No Tim; only induction motors are transformers, synchronous motors and
brush motors are not like a transformer at all.

How about redesigning refrigerators and household AC and heat pumps
around VFDs?  Let's start where there is some efficiency reward for the
extra design work



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