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nat'l talk show hosts are LYING about solar energy - Page 2

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Posted by Winston on April 24, 2009, 8:58 pm
Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan! wrote:


Nonsense, M'Lord.

Every WHr of energy generated by 'direct' sun and wind and hydro and
tidal and biomass and biogas is a wHr that doesn't come from
irreplaceable oil. Only in prehistory did mankind rely on a single
source of energy and we began exploiting multiple sources
synergistically as soon as we could get our minds wrapped around the
Survival continues to be predicated on our ability to use as many
relatively safe energy sources as possible, in concert, efficiently.

Yes. Given the same criteria, have we justified the use of nuclear
energy and included the cost of safe storage of spent fuel rods for
several tens of thousands of years?  Of course we have. Wait a minute....
No we haven't.

We cooked our energy books and our decisions will continue to be
affected by our lopsided accounting practices.

Lay down where?  In geosynchronous orbit so that the reflected energy
doesn't get trapped under our gas layer?  Each 1% of solar reflectance
will cost one square mirror with an area of 1.28 million square km.

How many shuttle missions worth of CO2 would it cost to put say 5 of
those in place?  How much more CO2 would we expend to orbit a quantity
of them sufficient to avert the disaster du jour?



Don't *faff*, dear.

Posted by vaughn on April 24, 2009, 9:42 pm

   I don't know about the rest of the world, but very little grid power in
the USA comes from oil.


Posted by Winston on April 25, 2009, 12:05 am
 vaughn wrote:

Yeah that was sloppy of me.
I was lumping natural gas and coal into a general irreplaceable 'oil'
category.  My point was that we must take advantage of as many different
kinds of renewable energy sources that make sense environmentally and
economically if we are to blunt the effects of our use of irreplaceable

--Winston <-- Has an oily monkey on his back. So do you!


Don't *faff*, dear.

Posted by Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's n on April 25, 2009, 1:46 am

But the point here is that they are constructed, delivered, and installed by
methods and machines that DO use petroleum, and therefore develop a "carbon
deficit" that needs to be recovered before they produce a single watt. Once
operational the first have to repay all the energy that was invested in
their existance before they produce "free" power.

This I will agree with.

Why do you think we still have Nevada?

Ohhh... okay, got it... WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!

You are seriously overcomplicating this. You lay down an equal area of
mirror wherever you would have installed a solar panel instead. Again, if
your aim is to cut down on Global Warming then reflecting the sunlight back
into space will do more for you than having 80% of it turned to heat.

"I am a Democrat and here is my energy plan" (holding up a picture of an old
VW Bug with a sail attached to it) - Rep Devin Nunes

Posted by Winston on April 25, 2009, 4:10 am
 Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan! wrote:

... and geothermal...

Funny how we don't consider a carbon deficit when constructing
facilities that are to be part of the petroleum infrastructure.
We never require a gas station to be 'carbon neutral', for example.
At what point does a asphalt - paved freeway pay for itself?

Do we consider the financial cost of oil?
How much would a barrel of oil cost if we had to make it rather than
pump it out of the ground? A few hundred thousand dollars?
Could we even make so much as a drop of oil that was 'carbon neutral'?
(How would we power the various processes? Natural gas? Oil?)  :)

Do we include the cost of military adventures to maintain the supply?
How many body bags do we specify to pay for the power from each
wind charger, each solar panel?  (I'll help here:None.)

Yet 4277 is an acceptable number of bags (so far) from Iraq to help pay
for oil. Why is that?

These are examples of lopsided bookkeeping. We are deluding ourselves.
(The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and God told me that.
  We couldn't get concurrence from the Tooth Fairy, however.
  He'll come around.)


This country has lasted what, 230 odd years?  What is that, in relation
to the tens of thousands of years it will take before those rods
return to (relatively safe) lead? (Answer: We're a rounding error)

Yes. We all will. But that's a different conversation.
See the above. We are killing off our strongest for oil because
that is off the books. Those deaths are 'free'.


It refuses to go back.

The atmosphere traps longwave infrared, yes, M'Lord?
Once the infrared enters the atmosphere the game is over.


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