Posted by Gordon on April 25, 2009, 4:45 am
@news.motzarella.org:
> Efficient or not solar and wind devices are front end loaded with fossil
> fuel consumption and their carbon foot print would not become net level
> until late in their life cycles. At this point, I'd say the talk show
> hosts are correct in their assessment.
And a conventional fossil fuel plant isn't?
Posted by Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's n on April 25, 2009, 3:41 pm
> @news.motzarella.org:
>> Efficient or not solar and wind devices are front end loaded with fossil
>> fuel consumption and their carbon foot print would not become net level
>> until late in their life cycles. At this point, I'd say the talk show
>> hosts are correct in their assessment.
> And a conventional fossil fuel plant isn't?
A conventional fossil fuel plant isn't claiming to be carbon free.
LG
--
"Keep it simple. If it takes a genius to understand it, it will never work."
- Clarence Leonard “Kelly” Johnson
Posted by Morris Dovey on April 25, 2009, 5:08 pm
Lord Gow333, Dirk Benedict's newest fan! wrote:
>
>> @news.motzarella.org:
>>
>>> Efficient or not solar and wind devices are front end loaded with fossil
>>> fuel consumption and their carbon foot print would not become net level
>>> until late in their life cycles. At this point, I'd say the talk show
>>> hosts are correct in their assessment.
>>
>> And a conventional fossil fuel plant isn't?
>
> A conventional fossil fuel plant isn't claiming to be carbon free.
As a manufacturer of solar devices I'm finding this discussion
interesting but without much substance.
I purchase materials on the open market, and am more or less obliged to
conclude that what I pay represents all of the costs of those materials
along with enough markup to keep everyone in the supply chain solvent.
There's no way for me to know what portion of that cost resulted from
fossil fuel consumption. I'm certain that it's more than none, and it's
certainly less than all.
To transform those materials (mostly wood) into product for shipment, I
use in the neighborhood of 2 kW*hr of electricity to power computer,
tools, and lighting to produce a single 48 ft^2 (4.46 m^2) solar heating
panel. Those costs, along with overhead expenses like shop rent all get
rolled into the price I charge.
Customer feedback to date indicates that the panels have produced a fuel
savings equal to their purchase price within a 2 to 4 year time frame.
It appears that the panels will typically have service lifetimes of at
least 15 years - which means that they'll probably last longer than I.
Installed, the panels consume no fuel and use no electricity - and the
energy they provide replaces that same amount of energy from (typically)
fuel oil, LPG, or natural gas.
I can't address the costs of any other solar device - and I certainly
don't feel comfortable making sweeping statements about /all/ solar
devices, but I think the urge to do exactly that is producing a lot of
(possibly harmful) misinformation.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Posted by Eeyore on April 25, 2009, 8:45 pm
Morris Dovey wrote:
> I can't address the costs of any other solar device - and I certainly
> don't feel comfortable making sweeping statements about /all/ solar
> devices, but I think the urge to do exactly that is producing a lot of
> (possibly harmful) misinformation.
Mis or disinformation is the "green's" stock-in trade. They are VERY selective
about what they state. Hence I no longer support them.
Graham
Posted by Alistair Gunn on April 25, 2009, 8:21 am
Frank twisted the electrons to say:
> Efficient or not solar and wind devices are front end loaded with fossil
> fuel consumption and their carbon foot print would not become net level
> until late in their life cycles.
Have you got any backup for that statement, because the British Wind
Energy Association (who I'll grant you might not be entirely unbiased)
claim the average UK wind farm will pay back the energy used in it's
construction within 3-10 months ...
<http://www.bwea.com/edu/calcs.html>
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
XML site map
> fuel consumption and their carbon foot print would not become net level
> until late in their life cycles. At this point, I'd say the talk show
> hosts are correct in their assessment.