Posted by z on December 3, 2009, 5:05 am
> wrote:
>
>>I dunno... There seem to be a lot of people who have their hearts in
the
>>right place, but who don't seem to feel that they can actually /do/
>>anything to improve the situation other than attempt to bring attention
>>to the problems they know about.
> Having your heart in the right place is about as high on the priority
> list as it gets for me, but I'm not sure that taking it on oneself to
> educate the public of a problem in the hope that someone else will fix
> it, qualifies.
>
> It seems like there is no contest between the notions of "do as I say,
> not as I do" and the pride of achievement you've pointed out. I think
> there is a requirement of credentials that is seriously lacking for
> some people or some groups that self appoint themselves as public
> educators, for me anyway, a history of even small achievements add up
> to credibility, but without credibility, they're just proselytizing
> their beliefs, achieving nothing accept trying to make themselves feel
> better.
>
> It seems to me that whether someone is trying to help others or
> themselves defines having your heart in the right place.
>
> BTW, the post from Brian White (posted yesterday) is where the same
> guy (I think) that posted that "W" shaped collector I sent.
>
> Curbie
>
>
well you don't have to be a rocket scientist to at least start
experimenting. The problem is that folk put too much 'faith' in those
expounding rather than learning from direct experience.
People say this and that all the time, siting authority due to degree's
or whatnot and its naturally a good thing to read and learn from everyone
as much as you can, but keep a skeptical eye and try it yourself and
observe.
Its fun too
Posted by Curbie on December 3, 2009, 9:41 am
>well you don't have to be a rocket scientist to at least start
>experimenting. The problem is that folk put too much 'faith' in those
>expounding rather than learning from direct experience.
>People say this and that all the time, siting authority due to degree's
>or whatnot and its naturally a good thing to read and learn from everyone
>as much as you can, but keep a skeptical eye and try it yourself and
>observe.
>Its fun too
BINGO z,
Both you and Morris are examples of people who walk the walk and when
you two talk the talk, it's generally to help others, which is my
definition of the heart being in the right place.
"You don't have to be a rocket scientist to at least start
experimenting" - Now that's the truth of it and there is a ton of
experiments that could be done for no money and less time than people
spend trying to talk others into doing something, but unfortunately
(on many levels), that would make the problem about the people who
need help instead of person talking the BS talk.
Curbie
Posted by Curbie on December 1, 2009, 9:05 pm
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:55:31 -0800 (PST), "misterfact@yahoo.com"
>Dr. Howard Hayden (formerly Univ. of Conn.) is going around the radio,
>and lecture circuits making this statement:
> "Wind farms produce about 1.2 watts per sq. meter of land area."
>Sounds pretty low to me.
>There is a 950,000 watt wind-electric-generator near me in Traverse
>City, Mi. It occupies about 3 acres (15,000 sq meters)
> Divide 15,000 into 950,000= 63 watts/sq m
>Is Dr. Hayden doing a service to the wind electric industry or not?
>Mike
>Misterfact@yahoo.com
Morris makes some good points, and just to add a few more.
Generally, if you want to taken seriously, a citation belongs with a
quote of this nature when you question someone's credibility, so far
all I see is a post from someone calling himself
"misterfact" who's not posting any facts.
I've never heard of an energy-per-area calculation being applied to
wind turbines, the notion that such a calculation would apply between
different places like NYC and Nebraska has no usefulness.
You asked for comments, so...
Find a better place to post this foolishness, perhaps
Alt.Off-Topic.Unfounded.Accusations
Curbie
Posted by Josepi on December 2, 2009, 3:19 am
Has no accounting for stacking wind turbines, either.
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:55:31 -0800 (PST), "misterfact@yahoo.com"
>>Dr. Howard Hayden (formerly Univ. of Conn.) is going around the radio,
>>and lecture circuits making this statement:
>>
>> "Wind farms produce about 1.2 watts per sq. meter of land area."
>>
>>Sounds pretty low to me.
>>
>>There is a 950,000 watt wind-electric-generator near me in Traverse
>>City, Mi. It occupies about 3 acres (15,000 sq meters)
>>
>> Divide 15,000 into 950,000= 63 watts/sq m
>>
>>
>>Is Dr. Hayden doing a service to the wind electric industry or not?
>>
>>
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>Misterfact@yahoo.com
> Morris makes some good points, and just to add a few more.
> Generally, if you want to taken seriously, a citation belongs with a
> quote of this nature when you question someone's credibility, so far
> all I see is a post from someone calling himself
> "misterfact" who's not posting any facts.
> I've never heard of an energy-per-area calculation being applied to
> wind turbines, the notion that such a calculation would apply between
> different places like NYC and Nebraska has no usefulness.
> You asked for comments, so...
> Find a better place to post this foolishness, perhaps
> Alt.Off-Topic.Unfounded.Accusations
> Curbie
>
Posted by misterfact@yahoo.com on December 2, 2009, 4:12 pm
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:55:31 -0800 (PST), "misterf...@yahoo.com"
> >Dr. Howard Hayden (formerly Univ. of Conn.) is going around the radio,
> >and lecture circuits making this statement:
> > "Windfarms produce about 1.2 watts per sq. meter of land area."
> >Sounds pretty low to me.
> >There is a 950,000 wattwind-electric-generator near me in Traverse
> >City, Mi. It occupies about 3 acres (15,000 sq meters)
> > Divide 15,000 into 950,000= 63 watts/sq m
> >Is Dr. Hayden doing a service to thewindelectric industry or not?
> >Mike
> >Misterf...@yahoo.com
> Morris makes some good points, and just to add a few more.
> Generally, if you want to taken seriously, a citation belongs with a
> quote of this nature when you question someone's credibility, so far
> all I see is a post from someone calling himself
> "misterfact" who's not posting any facts.
> I've never heard of an energy-per-area calculation being applied towindturbines, the notion that such a calculation would apply between
> different places like NYC and Nebraska has no usefulness.
> You asked for comments, so...
> Find a better place to post this foolishness, perhaps
> Alt.Off-Topic.Unfounded.Accusations
> Curbie- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
here's Hayden's "facts"
http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/10648/Debunking_the_Solar_Energy=
_Myth.html
When it comes to wind, Hayden shows wind farms can generate electrical
power at the rate of about 1.2 watts (W) per square meter (m2) for
most sites, and up to 4 W/m2 in rare sites where the wind always comes
from one direction. The goal is to generate enough energy to replicate
a 1,000 megawatts power plant operating around the clock. To do that
in California, for example, would require a wind farm one mile wide
stretching all the way from Los Angeles to San Francisco.
To produce as much energy as a conventional 1,000 megawatt power plant
using solar would require a 127 square mile field of solar mirrors
collecting enough heat to turn a turbine. Now that would have quite an
environmental impact!
>
>>I dunno... There seem to be a lot of people who have their hearts in
the
>>right place, but who don't seem to feel that they can actually /do/
>>anything to improve the situation other than attempt to bring attention
>>to the problems they know about.
> Having your heart in the right place is about as high on the priority
> list as it gets for me, but I'm not sure that taking it on oneself to
> educate the public of a problem in the hope that someone else will fix
> it, qualifies.
>
> It seems like there is no contest between the notions of "do as I say,
> not as I do" and the pride of achievement you've pointed out. I think
> there is a requirement of credentials that is seriously lacking for
> some people or some groups that self appoint themselves as public
> educators, for me anyway, a history of even small achievements add up
> to credibility, but without credibility, they're just proselytizing
> their beliefs, achieving nothing accept trying to make themselves feel
> better.
>
> It seems to me that whether someone is trying to help others or
> themselves defines having your heart in the right place.
>
> BTW, the post from Brian White (posted yesterday) is where the same
> guy (I think) that posted that "W" shaped collector I sent.
>
> Curbie
>
>