Hybrid Car – More Fun with Less Gas

1 millionth Prius sold in the USA - Page 9

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Posted by David T. Johnson on April 16, 2011, 1:09 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Actually you deleted the real discussion which was if small lead-acid
batteries were suitable for the 'weather extremes'  you keep talking
about.  I haven't actually suggested that your 'tractor battery' should
be installed in a Prius.  That was you or someone else.

Minor point, compared to your dissembling here, but the VW beetle was
actually sold up until 1979.  And yes, those lead-acid batteries were
perfectly suitable for installing in the passenger compartment of the VW
beetle under the rear seat...or at least I haven't heard of anyone dying
from it.

Posted with OS/2 Warp 4.52
and Sea Monkey 1.5a

Posted by Elmo P. Shagnasty on April 16, 2011, 9:19 am

I'm not saying we didn't do it; I'm saying it might not have been the
greatest idea in the world.

And in fact, it wasn't.  If you'll recall--if you know anything about
Beetles--worn rear seat springs and/or heavy rear seat passengers would
bounce those metal springs right onto the battery posts.

We did a LOT of things in 1960-1979 that we don't do today, because we
know better.  You know that, but really don't want to acknowledge that.  
You'd rather leave it out there that "well, we put batteries under the
seat in the Beetle" because it makes it look better that you can take
ANY $0 battery and use it in a Prius.

And that was the crux of this whole discussion:  your assertion that the
Prius is "better" because it can use a $0 tractor battery to open the
relays and run the auxiliary electrical requirements of the car.  Never
mind that you shouldn't; you just want to hang on to "it can".

You can do anything you want, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

Posted by David T. Johnson on April 16, 2011, 5:23 pm
 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

Your image is very colorful but, as one who spent a lot of miles in vw
beetles, I can assure you that the battery was protected from heavy
passengers and worn rear seat springs and heavy passengers never
'sparked' the conversation.

My assertion was that the Prius auxilliary battery wouldn't require
replacement in 100k miles while a non-hybrid battery typically would.
My reason was that the Prius auxilliary battery was not used for
starting the Prius motor and so was not subject to the heavy current
draw that starting requires while the non-hybrid battery was used for
starting the non-hybrid motor, was subject to the heavy current draw
(100 amps) that starting a motor entails, and was therefore in a
discharged state more often which shortens the battery life.

The crux of the whole discussion is that the hybrid Prius has lower
overall maintenance and repair costs than a non-hybrid vehicle,
including the battery replacement cost, although I concede that the
Prius auxilliary battery replacement cost is quite high at $12.  As I
noted, though, I would expect the auxilliary battery replacement cost to
go down if replacement of it begins to be needed in large numbers and it
is stocked as a replacement part at the national auto parts chains like
CarQuest, O'Reilly, NAPA, etc.  My personal experience with my Prius for
100k miles is that I have had to replace the oil and filter every 5k
miles, change the coolant, change the air filter twice, and change the
cabin air filter twice.  That's it in 100k miles of typical driving over
a 5-year period.  And the Prius is performing as well as the day I
bought it.  Perhaps that's the reason that so many taxi cabs are
Priuses, that used Prius values hold up so well, that new Priuses are in
very short supply, and that the 1 millionth Prius was sold in the USA.

Posted with OS/2 Warp 4.52
and Sea Monkey 1.5a

Posted by Elmo P. Shagnasty on April 16, 2011, 5:37 pm

And you base that assertion on what?

That it doesn't run a starter motor?

The fact that it doesn't run a starter motor is exactly why Toyota used
a small battery.  The requirements of the battery determine its size.  
Toyota did not use a standard 12v battery because they didn't need to
spend the money or space or weight on that.  So, they used exactly as
light and small a battery as they could get away with to do the bare
minimum that it needs to do.

Capacity wise, it's sized and rated to have a lifetime about as long as
the standard 12v battery that runs a starter motor.  No more, no less.  
Toyota spent no money on making that part of the car be any "better"
than any other car.  The expense is, overall, the same.

Let's go back to your assertion:  is it based on fact, or is it based on
you wishing things to be so?

Posted by bwilson4web on April 20, 2011, 11:25 am
. . .

When Toyota owns the car, they can use their choice in battery. When
someone else owns it, they choose the battery.

I prefer a $00, after market battery with a 10 year life designed for
rugged operation but I don't fault anyone for making a different
choice and there are a large array of options including motorcycle and
lawn tractor batteries. If it fits and works, no problem.

Bob Wilson

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