Posted by Bruce Richmond on January 18, 2011, 6:23 am
Fool themselves? Yes, I suppose it is fooling themselves if they
spend more for a set of high mpg tires than what they save in fuel
costs, especially if they have to swap tires in the winter because the
high mpg ones stink in the snow. Or they spend $$ on a block heater
that raises their electric bill more than what they save in gas. But
averaging 60 mpg rather than 45 by driving differently and using a few
tricks that cost little or nothing is not fooling themselves.
Posted by Elmo P. Shagnasty on January 18, 2011, 12:06 pm
The "tricks" that we're discussing involve altering the car in ways not
intended by the engineers, and not stopping to consider just why the
engineers didn't do these "tricks" themselves.
The "tricks" involve assuming that YOU know more about the car and the
long term consequences of the "tricks" than do the guys who designed the
silly thing. You don't, of course, but you fool yourself into thinking
you do, simply because you want to play games to make the glowing number
on the dash be higher.
You're playing a rolling video game with one goal in mind, and damn the
consequences? That's fooling yourself.
Posted by Bruce Richmond on January 18, 2011, 12:39 pm
The engineers aren't driving the car so they can't do tricks like
coasting up to a stop light.
Every design involves compromises. The engineers tend to go with what
the majority would prefer. The car has a heater. Most people would
prefer to be comfortable using it. That doesn't mean it hurts the car
to conserve the heat by not using it. Air flow around the engine
carries off some of it's heat. In the summer that's a good thing
while in the winter it is not. The engineers felt it would cost more
to provide a way of controlling those losses, so they designed it to
stay cool in the summer and run the engine to stay warm in the winter.
You're a bitter old man sucking on sour grapes.
Posted by Elmo P. Shagnasty on January 19, 2011, 11:19 am
I'm not talking about preferences, I'm talking about things like
drivetrain longevity. You don't know what factors affect that, and why
the engineers made the "compromises" they did.
It's not all about "what people prefer".
bzzzzzt, thanks for playing. It most certainly does hurt the car to
"converve heat" by not using the heater. The engineers designed the
traction battery to operate best within the same temperature range as
what makes the human driver comfortable. Ever notice that it's vented
to the cabin? That's to take advantage of cabin climate control. And
by the way, that's why the Prius *has* automatic climate control--not
because Toyota wanted to give a premium feature like that to someone
buying a $0K car, but to give the battery the best chance to be in its
optimimum temperature operating zone. Give the driver the ability to
set it and forget it, and let the body computer make all the decisions
on how to get the cabin--and the traction battery--to where it needs to
So now you come in and play your rolling video game, but you ignore the
big picture that you clearly don't know anything about. When you choose
not to heat the cabin, out of ignorance, you're screwing with the highly
engineered system that lots of highly paid professionals designed and
created. You're actually hurting the traction battery.
nope. The engineers made many decisions, and of course cost came into
play, but it's nowhere near as simple as what you think. The engineers
need cabin heat in the winter--they need the human to be comfortable--in
order for the entire system to work as designed. Your claims of "well,
they just did it for cost saving" are nothing more than self-serving
excuses for you to play your rolling video game and hyperfocus on one
thing: that dashboard number.
You're sacrificing the traction battery long-term just for your
short-term goal of making numbers appear on your rolling video game. Is
that a PREFERENCE of yours? Add up your total per-mile cost--not your
miles per gallon, but your total per-mile cost--over the life of the
car, and do so by adding in an early traction battery replacement that
you wouldn't have otherwise needed if you weren't playing your rolling
That's just one example of what happens when amateurs convince
themselves that they know more than the guy who engineered something as
complicated as the hybrid synergy drive.
hardly. I'm a knowledgeable man explaining the world to an ignorant,
Posted by Bruce Richmond on January 21, 2011, 1:14 am
bzzzzzt, back at you. Heat would hurt the battery but being cold just
reduces its capacity while it is cold. Start working it and it will
warm up the battery restoring its capacity. Also it seems you don't
know that much about hypermiling. The pulse and glide technique
avoids discharging and charging the traction battery, so it reduces
the work load on it and should extend its life.
You already used your cabin heat excuse, and it doesn't apply here
anyway. The car loses heat from the engine compartment directly to
the outside whether you are using the heater or not. I quite often do
use the heater because I like being comfortable and not looking
through fogged up windows. I have taped the grill off to prevent the
uncontrolled loss of heat that can be put to good use. With the grill
taped off the engine gets up to normal operating temperature quicker,
giving me heat for the interior and reducing engine wear. The
thermostat still controls the engine's temperature when it is up to
temp, and it is unlikely there will be any overheating with the cool
ambient temps. The quicker warm up also gives it a better chance of
boiling off condensation in the engine during my 11 mile commute to
work in winter weather. It also helps me save gasoline. That's four
reasons why taping off the grill is a good thing to do. Can you list
even one reason not to? Like I said, the main reason for not doing
more to control heat lost was probably cost.
I never said I know more than the engineers, but it seems I know more
than you do. BTW, when using the pulse and glide technique the
computer still has the final say on when the battery will be charged/
discharged or the engine shut down/started. I just control the gas
pedal which is one of the inputs to the computer. I do not have an EV
switch and I have not over ridden the computer's programing.
It's selfish of me to want to conserve fuel? Wow, do you have a
warped way of looking at things. And speaking of ignorant, you don't
even know how old I am.