Posted by The I'm done being benevolent on May 2, 2006, 10:21 pm
perfb@yahoo.com wrote:
> I noticed in Europe that diesels and turbo diesels are very common (eg
> Peugeot) with claims of 50 mpg mileage according to some owners I spoke
> to. They were pretty comfortable cars, too, just not as big as in the
> USA, though not tiny by any means, quite comparable to the Prius in
> size.
>
> So, given the fact that a diesel engine is ~15% more efficient,
> mpg-wise, for the same horsepower than a gasoline engine, and that with
> a turbo diesel you can get decent performance AND high mpg, why the
> heck are the majority of cars in the USA still gasoline?
>
> Is there some other factor that overrides the inherent efficiency of
> diesel? e.g. pollution? Is that really it? Or, is it just market
> inertia and historically low fuel prices relative to Europe?
The VW diesel Rabbit was able to approach 50 Mpg a number of years ago...
Yep, I think it was the smell. Diesel is also easier to refine.
--
Posted by Morton Linder on May 3, 2006, 3:20 am
perfb@yahoo.com wrote:
> I noticed in Europe that diesels and turbo diesels are very common (eg
> Peugeot) with claims of 50 mpg mileage according to some owners I spoke
> to. They were pretty comfortable cars, too, just not as big as in the
> USA, though not tiny by any means, quite comparable to the Prius in
> size.
>
> So, given the fact that a diesel engine is ~15% more efficient,
> mpg-wise, for the same horsepower than a gasoline engine, and that with
> a turbo diesel you can get decent performance AND high mpg, why the
> heck are the majority of cars in the USA still gasoline?
>
> Is there some other factor that overrides the inherent efficiency of
> diesel? e.g. pollution? Is that really it? Or, is it just market
> inertia and historically low fuel prices relative to Europe?
>
One of the problems in the USA is that our diesel fuel has a lot of
sulfur, which makes for stinky polluting exhauts gases. If and when we
can get low sulfur diesel fuel, the situation could then improve.
Morton
Posted by Bob Wilson on May 3, 2006, 11:24 am
> I noticed in Europe that diesels and turbo diesels are very common (eg
> Peugeot) with claims of 50 mpg mileage according to some owners I spoke
> to. . . .
> So, given the fact that a diesel engine is ~15% more efficient,
> mpg-wise, for the same horsepower than a gasoline engine, . . .
52 City - my NHW11 Prius
50 Highway - typical diesel specs
Atkinson cycle means 1:8 compression stroke and 1:13 expansion with
attendant improvement in thermal dynamic efficiency. Then the hybrid
transmission and control laws allows avoidance of inefficient energy
ranges.
Bob Wilson
Posted by Dave on May 3, 2006, 1:23 pm
perfb@yahoo.com wrote:
> I noticed in Europe that diesels and turbo diesels are very common (eg
> Peugeot) with claims of 50 mpg mileage according to some owners I spoke
> to. They were pretty comfortable cars, too, just not as big as in the
> USA, though not tiny by any means, quite comparable to the Prius in
> size.
>
> So, given the fact that a diesel engine is ~15% more efficient,
> mpg-wise, for the same horsepower than a gasoline engine, and that with
> a turbo diesel you can get decent performance AND high mpg, why the
> heck are the majority of cars in the USA still gasoline?
>
> Is there some other factor that overrides the inherent efficiency of
> diesel? e.g. pollution? Is that really it? Or, is it just market
> inertia and historically low fuel prices relative to Europe?
>
Because the US uses a dirty blend of diesel fuel. That is scheduled to
change in a year or 2 with a mandate for clean diesel fuel.
Posted by richard schumacher on May 3, 2006, 2:39 pm
wrote:
> > Is there some other factor that overrides the inherent efficiency of
> > diesel? e.g. pollution? Is that really it? Or, is it just market
> > inertia and historically low fuel prices relative to Europe?
> >
> Because the US uses a dirty blend of diesel fuel. That is scheduled to
> change in a year or 2 with a mandate for clean diesel fuel.
Ultra-low-sulfur (<= 15 ppm) Diesel fuel becomes mandatory for retail
sale in the US on 1 Oct 2006. It was to be 1 July, but the Bush
Administration, god bless 'em, decided that the poor old oil bidnis
needed some more help.
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> Peugeot) with claims of 50 mpg mileage according to some owners I spoke
> to. They were pretty comfortable cars, too, just not as big as in the
> USA, though not tiny by any means, quite comparable to the Prius in
> size.
>
> So, given the fact that a diesel engine is ~15% more efficient,
> mpg-wise, for the same horsepower than a gasoline engine, and that with
> a turbo diesel you can get decent performance AND high mpg, why the
> heck are the majority of cars in the USA still gasoline?
>
> Is there some other factor that overrides the inherent efficiency of
> diesel? e.g. pollution? Is that really it? Or, is it just market
> inertia and historically low fuel prices relative to Europe?