Posted by Michael Pardee on May 2, 2006, 12:20 pm
> <snip)
>> Diesels are still cantankerous - cold starts are problematic; they still
>> clatter like something's wrong, especially when cold; the diesel guys who
>> gave me basic instruction warned me to take it easy on the engine until
>> it warmed up / quieted down.
> This was true of Turbo Diesels but I have found that the modern common
> rail diesel engine (of which I have Peugeots HDI model in the 406 that I
> had new in 1999) starts better than any petrol engine I have used and is
> far less noisy than its predecessors. Also, unlike petrol engines, there
> is no drop off in performance before the engine warms up, it starts and is
> ready to give full acceleration straight away.
> <snip>
>> Turbo diesels are plenty powerful once the turbo gets spun up, but until
>> then I wish I had four feet so I could hold the accelerator to the floor
>> with one, feather the clutch with a second, and do the Fred Flintstone
>> thing with the other two. You haven't experienced turbo lag until you've
>> waited for 20 psi boost to appear.
> Again, IME, the HDI engine seems not to suffer from any lag and is more
> akin to driving a petrol engined car when it comes to pull away and
> acceleration. And for interests sake my car averages 46mpg.
> --
> Keith Willcocks
> (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
I've heard "yes" and "no" that Europe has more refined diesels (a Swedish
friend who visits family every year says "no"); I presume the common rail
engines are the ones they are talking about. I'll have to study those more.
Do you know if they are available in any US cars?
Mike
(who agrees about the laughter!)
Posted by Keith Willcocks on May 2, 2006, 12:52 pm
>>
>> <snip)
>>> Diesels are still cantankerous - cold starts are problematic; they still
>>> clatter like something's wrong, especially when cold; the diesel guys
>>> who gave me basic instruction warned me to take it easy on the engine
>>> until it warmed up / quieted down.
>>
>> This was true of Turbo Diesels but I have found that the modern common
>> rail diesel engine (of which I have Peugeots HDI model in the 406 that I
>> had new in 1999) starts better than any petrol engine I have used and is
>> far less noisy than its predecessors. Also, unlike petrol engines,
>> there is no drop off in performance before the engine warms up, it starts
>> and is ready to give full acceleration straight away.
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Turbo diesels are plenty powerful once the turbo gets spun up, but until
>>> then I wish I had four feet so I could hold the accelerator to the floor
>>> with one, feather the clutch with a second, and do the Fred Flintstone
>>> thing with the other two. You haven't experienced turbo lag until you've
>>> waited for 20 psi boost to appear.
>>
>> Again, IME, the HDI engine seems not to suffer from any lag and is more
>> akin to driving a petrol engined car when it comes to pull away and
>> acceleration. And for interests sake my car averages 46mpg.
>>
>> --
>> Keith Willcocks
>> (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
>>
>>
>>
> I've heard "yes" and "no" that Europe has more refined diesels (a Swedish
> friend who visits family every year says "no"); I presume the common rail
> engines are the ones they are talking about. I'll have to study those
> more. Do you know if they are available in any US cars?
> Mike
> (who agrees about the laughter!)
I have no idea whether they are available in the US but I would be surprised
if they weren't. I am in England and common rail are the norm over here
now. Different companies have different names for their version, Peugeot
is HDI but I have seen many others, much like the different names given to
automatic gearbox systems. My cousin who was over from the States was well
impressed with my Peugeot 406.
I am no expert but as I understand it the older diesels had a pump looking
like a distributor with a pipe to each injector and it pumped a shot of
diesel into each cylinder at the appropriate moment being controlled
mechanically. The common rail has one pipe along the side of the engine
(the common rail) which has a pipe to each injector and the whole system is
under continuous high pressure. The injectors are controlled
electronically by the ECU which instructs them when to inject fuel and how
much. Obviously there is much more to it but that is all I know. Suffice
it to say that there is a world of difference between driving the two types.
I believe you even get Jaguars now with common rail diesel engines.
Glad you like my motto, its works well in this day and age.
--
Keith Willcocks
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
Posted by Michael Pardee on May 3, 2006, 1:56 am
> I am no expert but as I understand it the older diesels had a pump looking
> like a distributor with a pipe to each injector and it pumped a shot of
> diesel into each cylinder at the appropriate moment being controlled
> mechanically. The common rail has one pipe along the side of the engine
> (the common rail) which has a pipe to each injector and the whole system
> is under continuous high pressure. The injectors are controlled
> electronically by the ECU which instructs them when to inject fuel and how
> much. Obviously there is much more to it but that is all I know.
> Suffice it to say that there is a world of difference between driving the
> two types. I believe you even get Jaguars now with common rail diesel
> engines.
That makes sense - I assume the clatter is from the mechanical injectors.
Mike
Posted by Ray O on May 3, 2006, 2:20 am
>>
>> I am no expert but as I understand it the older diesels had a pump
>> looking like a distributor with a pipe to each injector and it pumped a
>> shot of diesel into each cylinder at the appropriate moment being
>> controlled mechanically. The common rail has one pipe along the side of
>> the engine (the common rail) which has a pipe to each injector and the
>> whole system is under continuous high pressure. The injectors are
>> controlled electronically by the ECU which instructs them when to inject
>> fuel and how much. Obviously there is much more to it but that is all I
>> know. Suffice it to say that there is a world of difference between
>> driving the two types. I believe you even get Jaguars now with common
>> rail diesel engines.
>>
> That makes sense - I assume the clatter is from the mechanical injectors.
> Mike
Modern diesels have electronic fuel injection. Here are some good
descriptions of what causes diesel clatter:
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid 9341&page=7
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
Posted by Michael Pardee on May 3, 2006, 2:55 am
>>>
>>> I am no expert but as I understand it the older diesels had a pump
>>> looking like a distributor with a pipe to each injector and it pumped a
>>> shot of diesel into each cylinder at the appropriate moment being
>>> controlled mechanically. The common rail has one pipe along the side
>>> of the engine (the common rail) which has a pipe to each injector and
>>> the whole system is under continuous high pressure. The injectors are
>>> controlled electronically by the ECU which instructs them when to inject
>>> fuel and how much. Obviously there is much more to it but that is all
>>> I know. Suffice it to say that there is a world of difference between
>>> driving the two types. I believe you even get Jaguars now with common
>>> rail diesel engines.
>>>
>> That makes sense - I assume the clatter is from the mechanical injectors.
>>
>> Mike
>>
> Modern diesels have electronic fuel injection. Here are some good
> descriptions of what causes diesel clatter:
> http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid 9341&page=7
> --
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
That's an interesting link, although about all I can say is the subject of
clatter is still controversial. It sure sounds like the combustion profile
is important.
Mike
XML site map
>> Diesels are still cantankerous - cold starts are problematic; they still
>> clatter like something's wrong, especially when cold; the diesel guys who
>> gave me basic instruction warned me to take it easy on the engine until
>> it warmed up / quieted down.
> This was true of Turbo Diesels but I have found that the modern common
> rail diesel engine (of which I have Peugeots HDI model in the 406 that I
> had new in 1999) starts better than any petrol engine I have used and is
> far less noisy than its predecessors. Also, unlike petrol engines, there
> is no drop off in performance before the engine warms up, it starts and is
> ready to give full acceleration straight away.
> <snip>
>> Turbo diesels are plenty powerful once the turbo gets spun up, but until
>> then I wish I had four feet so I could hold the accelerator to the floor
>> with one, feather the clutch with a second, and do the Fred Flintstone
>> thing with the other two. You haven't experienced turbo lag until you've
>> waited for 20 psi boost to appear.
> Again, IME, the HDI engine seems not to suffer from any lag and is more
> akin to driving a petrol engined car when it comes to pull away and
> acceleration. And for interests sake my car averages 46mpg.
> --
> Keith Willcocks
> (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)