And now the Bull starts - Page 7

 

On 02/26/2010 10:15 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

ad hominem?  you can't address the facts so you attempt to discredit the
person pointing them out to you?  [rhetorical]



so read the freakin' owners manual!

besides, unless this is absolutely the first time this person has ever
sat behind the wheel of this vehicle, and hasn't yet turned it off, they
will have LEARNED that the button needs to be pressed for THREE SECONDS
to switch off the vehicle.  duh.



"forever" and "it seems"?  those are well known legal and scientific
terms that tell us precisely NOTHING.



right, we believe you.  the millions of tercel drivers out there that
have hundreds of thousands of miles on their cars - they believe you too.



except that you're not.  see above.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

 



jim beam wrote:


How is that going to help someone with an out of control vehicle?


that may well be easy to do when you are stopped in your driveway, but
if you are careening down the highway at an unreasonably fast speed your
perception of how long 3 seconds is may be a tad altered.  

    you are obviously a loon if you are trying to defend this as good
design.

 

jim wrote:

Maybe they should have considered that (RTFM) before engaging the starter.

 

On 02/27/2010 08:05 AM, jim wrote:

so, when you're cleaning your guns on the kitchen table, and your kid
comes in and wants to play with them, do you just hand them and the
ammunition over and let them emulate what they see on tv?  or do you
take a moment to point out the differences between the safe end and the
dangerous end, and keep the ammo locked away?

same with getting behind the wheel of a car dude - you are responsible
for familiarizing yourself with the controls before pressing the "start"
button.



what is "altered" about pressing the freakin' button until it works?
you keep pressing the brake pedal until you can tell it's working don't you?



no dude, i'm pointing out the facts:

1. a driver is responsible for familiarizing themselves with the
operation of the vehicle.

2. a driver that already knows the vehicle takes three seconds to
shutdown from their experience on the driveway but "forgets" it on the
road is going to be subject to "natural selection".

just like firearms, chainsaws, high buildings with open balconies, there
has to be a basic level of competence for which a manufacturer cannot be
held responsible.

--
nomina rutrum rutrum

 



jim beam wrote:


Did i say the driver is not responsible? Or are you having a hallucination?



Nope. That isn't what many people do. If the brakes don't work they may pump
them. They may repeatedly press a button also if they don't get the response
they are expecting.  The fact that she failed to hold the button for 3 seconds
in a crisis is completely believable.


    The point is it is not unbelievable that a driver  couldn't get her vehicle
under control. A lot of horror movies are built around the premise that when
faced with a frightening situation the obvious simple way out of the crisis is
often overlooked. Incompetence does exist. I don't think she is lying. I do
think she is incompetent.

    The point is that if toyota was taking money from fools without a care or
thought given to making that transaction foolproof - well shit happens. It is
not as if there isn't a long history of other manufacturers getting burned in
exactly the same way. that they could have referred to.




No you're ignoring the facts and revising what happened to fit your fantasy.
This appears to be  all you are capable of....




OK and a car maker that is responsible for offing fools is going to get a
reputation for that. So its all as it should be. No?
    Except there are other people who never bought a Toyoat getting hurt, which
is why the govt. is stepping in.




No but if Toyota had any foresight they might have realized they could get their
image damaged. If we look at the history of unintended acceleration complaints,
in the end NHTSA as always will probably find that Toyota did nothing wrong.