Posted by Michelle Vadeboncoeur on November 16, 2004, 1:13 am
> We aren't talking reliability here, my Toyota 2004 Camry LE 5 speed should
> prove as reliable as the Prius I will assume. My assertion is that the
> battery should be depreciated as its being USED UP, lowering the value of
> the used car as it needs replacement and that replacement should be part of
> your fuel mileage calculations.
>
> That said and saying the battery lasts 10 years (2 years past its warranty)
> and needs to be replaced, for a cost of $000 (now who would put $000 into
> a ten year old car? So what is the car worth with a now dead battery?) So
> the real cost may include the throwaway of your ten year old car! But say
> you replace the battery, that adds $00 per year to your fuel bottom line.
Why replace the entire battery pack with a new one? Why not just
replace the individual bad cells? Why not get a used battery pack
from a junkyard (wrecked vehicle)? Most used 2001-2003 Prius battery
packs tend to sell in the $00 range.
Or, you could live in a CA emissions state like I do (MA). Warranty
on the 2004 and newer Prius' hybrid battery pack is extended to
10 years/150,000 miles, instead of the federal warranty of 8 years/100,000 miles.
;-)
Posted by RZ on November 25, 2004, 4:22 pm
Breaks should last forever too.
>> My question about the battery (hybrid concept) is has anyone factored in
>> the
>> cost of a new battery after the first goes bad (say in 8-10 years), it
>> would
>> seem to add more than $00 a year to the cost of running the car! So
>> shouldn't the mpg reflect that replacement cost and won't that equalize
>> the
>> "real" cost per mile with old technology?
>>
>> Ben
> The battery is about as expensive as an automatic transmission, and is
> more reliable than many auto trannies. It certainly has a longer warranty
> than most auto transmissions. Since the Prius has no actual transmission,
> I figure it is at worst a wash. No starter, no alternator or power
> steering pump... we're starting to come out ahead already. No cruise
> control system to go bad (well, okay, there are some switches). Not even a
> timing belt to be changed.
> Since there is a Honda, an Acura and a Volvo in the family, I frequent
> those groups. Absolutely amazing how many automatic transmission horror
> stories there, including a '99 Acura TL on its 4th transmission (they have
> a very bad record.) Honda transmissions can be destroyed by using
> non-Honda fluid or by routinely shifting into drive without coming to a
> complete stop while backing up. The '93 and '94 Volvo 850 had nearly 100%
> transmission failure in the first five years of service. How many "bad
> traction battery" posts have you seen here? Granted the Prius is a
> relatively new model, but it is doing remarkably well.
> The battery will probably fail at some point. But count the number of
> systems in any modern car that can cost more to repair or replace than the
> car is worth after 10 years. ABS controllers, SRS bag sets, engine,
> transmission. A co-worker had a Ford Escort until the water pump shaft
> failed just after the warranty period ran out. The timing belt let go (it
> drove the water pump) and crashed the engine. The car was uneconomical to
> repair, although he owed nearly two more years payments on it. I think the
> Prius is a good gamble by comparison.
> Mike
>
Posted by Joker on November 16, 2004, 10:54 am
>My question about the battery (hybrid concept) is has anyone factored in the
>cost of a new battery after the first goes bad (say in 8-10 years), it would
>seem to add more than $00 a year to the cost of running the car! So
>shouldn't the mpg reflect that replacement cost and won't that equalize the
>"real" cost per mile with old technology?
>Ben
>> From what I hear, the battery in the Prius is warranted for 10 years by
>> Toyota.
>>
>> That seems a bit much. I'm old enough to remember J.C. Penney's had a
>> lifetime battery (free replacement) as did Firestone (I think it was
>them).
>> I also had a Ford/Mercury that had a "We fix it once and you never pay to
>> have that part fixed again warranty." Well, Ford did away with that in
>> short order too (I had one so I know). It was even in their owner's
>manual
>> for the '86 era cars.
>>
>> Around here in the heat, my car's batteries only last maybe 2 years before
>> they are gone. Doesn't matter how many months it is warranted for, they
>> just pro-rate it and you basically buy another battery.
>>
>> I'm suspicious if I consider buying a Prius that Toyota will somehow
>weasel
>> out of the battery warranty or perhaps pro-rate it as some exorbitant
>> amount. Seems to good to be true if the battery is indeed thousands of
>> dollars of the cost of the car.
>>
>> Anyone have or read the fine print of the battery warranty to see what it
>> actually says?
>>
>> B~
I don't think there is a real price to "replace" the battery. Yes,
you may find costs, but my understanding is that the battery is
modular, and only the bad modules need to be replaced. Since you don't
necessarily replace an entire battery, the cost would depend on how
many modules get replaced.
Posted by Kevin Kirkeby on November 20, 2004, 6:03 pm
We are working on the assumption that the batteries will HAVE to fail. There
are no moving parts in the battery system. Lead-acid batteries have an
infinite charge / discharge cycle life, especially with computer control of
the process. If a company warantees an item for 10 years / 100000 miles (12
years / 120000 in CA Emission states) then it is safe to say the useful life
is at least twice that. As mentioned in other posts on this thread, there
will be other things that will fail much sooner, and most people don't drive
vehicles into the ground. Car manufacturers count on replacement cycles of
40 months or less, so for the vast majority of owners this wouldn't even be
an issue.
Kevin
> My question about the battery (hybrid concept) is has anyone factored in
> the
> cost of a new battery after the first goes bad (say in 8-10 years), it
> would
> seem to add more than $00 a year to the cost of running the car! So
> shouldn't the mpg reflect that replacement cost and won't that equalize
> the
> "real" cost per mile with old technology?
> Ben
>> From what I hear, the battery in the Prius is warranted for 10 years by
>> Toyota.
>>
>> That seems a bit much. I'm old enough to remember J.C. Penney's had a
>> lifetime battery (free replacement) as did Firestone (I think it was
> them).
>> I also had a Ford/Mercury that had a "We fix it once and you never pay to
>> have that part fixed again warranty." Well, Ford did away with that in
>> short order too (I had one so I know). It was even in their owner's
> manual
>> for the '86 era cars.
>>
>> Around here in the heat, my car's batteries only last maybe 2 years
>> before
>> they are gone. Doesn't matter how many months it is warranted for, they
>> just pro-rate it and you basically buy another battery.
>>
>> I'm suspicious if I consider buying a Prius that Toyota will somehow
> weasel
>> out of the battery warranty or perhaps pro-rate it as some exorbitant
>> amount. Seems to good to be true if the battery is indeed thousands of
>> dollars of the cost of the car.
>>
>> Anyone have or read the fine print of the battery warranty to see what it
>> actually says?
>>
>> B~
>>
>>
>
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> prove as reliable as the Prius I will assume. My assertion is that the
> battery should be depreciated as its being USED UP, lowering the value of
> the used car as it needs replacement and that replacement should be part of
> your fuel mileage calculations.
>
> That said and saying the battery lasts 10 years (2 years past its warranty)
> and needs to be replaced, for a cost of $000 (now who would put $000 into
> a ten year old car? So what is the car worth with a now dead battery?) So
> the real cost may include the throwaway of your ten year old car! But say
> you replace the battery, that adds $00 per year to your fuel bottom line.