Posted by Mr. G on August 11, 2008, 9:18 pm
Has anyone advocating this bill provided any data which correlates
pedestrian accidents involving hybrid vehicles to the total number of
such accidents with conventional cars, in order to prove (or disprove)
that there is not a substantially higher number of such accidents
involving a hybrid running in electric mode?
The unfortunate fact is, pedestrians (especially children) are hit by
cars all the time. But when they get hit by a hybrid, it makes national
news. And instead of realizing that they ran into traffic without
looking, it's the fault of the car. Of course, in modern America,
nothing is ever the fault of the victim. It must be the quiet cars.
I'll be writing my representatives about this, but I'd like to know if a
study is called for, or if any have already been cited in support of
this bill.
Thanks for your work on this.
Wilson (bwilson4use@hotmail.com) says...
> Hi,
>
> After driving to DC and back for a June 23 hearing about putting noise
> makers on hybrids for the blind, I submitted my materials for the
> record, the last week submissions, were open and here they are:
>
> http://www.regulations.gov
> search: NHTSA-2008-0108
>
> My documents are:
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.1
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.2
>
> When the NHTSA turned down my request to present the hybrid electric
> owner's point of view, they said I could ask questions at the meeting
> and submit my materials for the record. This meant I was able to review
> and critique the other presenters and use the extra time to prepare a
> much better presentation than I'd originally planned. They also kicked
> off a petition effort to "give hybrid electric owners a seat at the
> table."
>
> Hybrid electric owners are the ones who will have to pay for any
> mandated noise makers. By denying my presentation, they essentially
> exercised "taxation without representation," a policy that didn't work
> out very well in the past. The letters petitioning Congress have gone
> out and we will see what happens.
>
> Congress is in recess until Labor Day so other than some minor support
> efforts, not much is happening. We'll see what happens in the fall. With
> luck, it will never leave commitee and die with this Congress.
>
> A couple of other fun reads:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/178003-post1.html
>
> "At the very end of the session, I asked, "What about the bill before
> Congress, HR 5734? What if it gets passed in August?" He answered,
> "Don't worry ..." Which means I do worry and so should you unless you
> are happy with the "Bell the Hybrid Act," HR 5734. ..."
>
> Also:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/183771-post1.html
>
> "As some of you know, I've been applying my engineering skills to fixing
> some Congressional nonsense, HR 5734, the "Bell the Hybrid Act" that
> proposes to put noise makers on all hybrid electrics. With the
> Congressional recess, nothing will happen until Congress returns in
> September. So this is a good time to share what has been going on
> including some background. ..."
>
> Bob Wilson
>
>
>
>
Posted by Lu R on August 12, 2008, 4:09 pm
> Hi,
> After driving to DC and back for a June 23 hearing about putting noise
> makers on hybrids for the blind, I submitted my materials for the
> record, the last week submissions, were open and here they are:
> http://www.regulations.gov
> search: NHTSA-2008-0108
> My documents are:
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.1
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.2
> When the NHTSA turned down my request to present the hybrid electric
> owner's point of view, they said I could ask questions at the meeting
> and submit my materials for the record. This meant I was able to review
> and critique the other presenters and use the extra time to prepare a
> much better presentation than I'd originally planned. They also kicked
> off a petition effort to "give hybrid electric owners a seat at the
> table."
> Hybrid electric owners are the ones who will have to pay for any
> mandated noise makers. By denying my presentation, they essentially
> exercised "taxation without representation," a policy that didn't work
> out very well in the past. The letters petitioning Congress have gone
> out and we will see what happens.
> Congress is in recess until Labor Day so other than some minor support
> efforts, not much is happening. We'll see what happens in the fall. With
> luck, it will never leave commitee and die with this Congress.
> A couple of other fun reads:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/178003-post1.html
> "At the very end of the session, I asked, "What about the bill before
> Congress, HR 5734? What if it gets passed in August?" He answered,
> "Don't worry ..." Which means I do worry and so should you unless you
> are happy with the "Bell the Hybrid Act," HR 5734. ..."
> Also:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/183771-post1.html
> "As some of you know, I've been applying my engineering skills to fixing
> some Congressional nonsense, HR 5734, the "Bell the Hybrid Act" that
> proposes to put noise makers on all hybrid electrics. With the
> Congressional recess, nothing will happen until Congress returns in
> September. So this is a good time to share what has been going on
> including some background. ..."
> Bob Wilson
Not sure what you're suggesting there but it makes sense to me to use the
existing reversing beeper inside the car and place it in the rear hatch lid
to at least give some audible warning when reversing to pedestrians. As for
forward motion I'd hate to think that a constant beep going forwards is the
solution.
>
Posted by Bob & Holly Wilson on August 13, 2008, 12:16 am
...
>
> Not sure what you're suggesting there but it makes sense to me to use the
> existing reversing beeper inside the car and place it in the rear hatch lid
> to at least give some audible warning when reversing to pedestrians.
Actually to 'bleep' the existing horn.
> ... As for
> forward motion I'd hate to think that a constant beep going forwards is the
> solution.
That is why adding a noise source makes no sense.
Bob Wilson
Posted by fred seaver on September 13, 2008, 4:13 pm
Will toyota recall my 2008 :-(((
> Hi,
> After driving to DC and back for a June 23 hearing about putting noise
> makers on hybrids for the blind, I submitted my materials for the
> record, the last week submissions, were open and here they are:
> http://www.regulations.gov
> search: NHTSA-2008-0108
> My documents are:
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.1
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.2
> When the NHTSA turned down my request to present the hybrid electric
> owner's point of view, they said I could ask questions at the meeting
> and submit my materials for the record. This meant I was able to review
> and critique the other presenters and use the extra time to prepare a
> much better presentation than I'd originally planned. They also kicked
> off a petition effort to "give hybrid electric owners a seat at the
> table."
> Hybrid electric owners are the ones who will have to pay for any
> mandated noise makers. By denying my presentation, they essentially
> exercised "taxation without representation," a policy that didn't work
> out very well in the past. The letters petitioning Congress have gone
> out and we will see what happens.
> Congress is in recess until Labor Day so other than some minor support
> efforts, not much is happening. We'll see what happens in the fall. With
> luck, it will never leave commitee and die with this Congress.
> A couple of other fun reads:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/178003-post1.html
> "At the very end of the session, I asked, "What about the bill before
> Congress, HR 5734? What if it gets passed in August?" He answered,
> "Don't worry ..." Which means I do worry and so should you unless you
> are happy with the "Bell the Hybrid Act," HR 5734. ..."
> Also:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/183771-post1.html
> "As some of you know, I've been applying my engineering skills to fixing
> some Congressional nonsense, HR 5734, the "Bell the Hybrid Act" that
> proposes to put noise makers on all hybrid electrics. With the
> Congressional recess, nothing will happen until Congress returns in
> September. So this is a good time to share what has been going on
> including some background. ..."
> Bob Wilson
>
Posted by DougSlug on September 13, 2008, 6:41 pm
Bob,
I appreciate your efforts to inject reason into the legislative process in
this issue, although recent history teaches us that reason has little to do
with the legislative process. After reviewing the data you presented, I
completely agree with your analysis regarding the risk vs. benefit tradeoff,
since the data suggest that hybrids are no more responsible for pedestrian
accidents than any other vehicle--thus the problem has been identified on
the basis of perception alone. Perception can be a dangerous thing to the
rational.
What I am wondering is: has Toyota (or any other hybrid manufacturer)
weighed in on the issue yet? It seems they have the most to lose--cost
associated with developing a solution and loss of sales due to potential for
hybrids to become less desirable (and possibly more expensive) to consumers
being the first things to come to mind.
History has also taught us that large corporations tend to have more
influence on legislation than well-intentioned citizens, no matter how
obvious or well-supported their case may be.
- Doug
XML site map
>
> After driving to DC and back for a June 23 hearing about putting noise
> makers on hybrids for the blind, I submitted my materials for the
> record, the last week submissions, were open and here they are:
>
> http://www.regulations.gov
> search: NHTSA-2008-0108
>
> My documents are:
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.1
> NHTSA-2008-0108-0020.2
>
> When the NHTSA turned down my request to present the hybrid electric
> owner's point of view, they said I could ask questions at the meeting
> and submit my materials for the record. This meant I was able to review
> and critique the other presenters and use the extra time to prepare a
> much better presentation than I'd originally planned. They also kicked
> off a petition effort to "give hybrid electric owners a seat at the
> table."
>
> Hybrid electric owners are the ones who will have to pay for any
> mandated noise makers. By denying my presentation, they essentially
> exercised "taxation without representation," a policy that didn't work
> out very well in the past. The letters petitioning Congress have gone
> out and we will see what happens.
>
> Congress is in recess until Labor Day so other than some minor support
> efforts, not much is happening. We'll see what happens in the fall. With
> luck, it will never leave commitee and die with this Congress.
>
> A couple of other fun reads:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/178003-post1.html
>
> "At the very end of the session, I asked, "What about the bill before
> Congress, HR 5734? What if it gets passed in August?" He answered,
> "Don't worry ..." Which means I do worry and so should you unless you
> are happy with the "Bell the Hybrid Act," HR 5734. ..."
>
> Also:
> http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/183771-post1.html
>
> "As some of you know, I've been applying my engineering skills to fixing
> some Congressional nonsense, HR 5734, the "Bell the Hybrid Act" that
> proposes to put noise makers on all hybrid electrics. With the
> Congressional recess, nothing will happen until Congress returns in
> September. So this is a good time to share what has been going on
> including some background. ..."
>
> Bob Wilson
>
>
>
>