Posted by Marc Gerges on September 26, 2008, 1:28 pm
>
> Now there is an idea that might work. I had to take the car down to the
> "traffic station" where they do all their measurements. They had to weigh
> it themselves: American cars fall into a special category. They don't
> believe any of the data coming from the US.
:-)
> I was flabbergastet when they
> said they couldn't measure CO2 because they have all the instruments and
> hoses to hook up to the exhaust so they can tell you if your car pollutes
> too much. The customs office here is just like in the US, they can
> basically do what they want. When I tried to argue, their reasoning always
> goes back to: cars from the US fall into a special category. Now how can
> you argue with that!
It does make sense that they can't measure, it's not trivial to measure
CO2. CO2 is not really a polluting agent, it's just a product of the gas
burning in the engine.
> I am not sure if one can get the CO2 data from the mileage because the
> catalytic converter effects the outcome.
Yes, one can, with sufficient accuracy. Everything coming out of the
reaction that is not CO2 or water is mainly the difference between a
theoretically perfect reaction and reality - in percentage it's very,
very minor. 99+ % of the fuel consumption results in CO2 (and water).
The reason to look for CO2 emissions instead of measuring consumption is
that different fuels will react to different amounts of CO2, so CO2
emissions will allow for comparability e.g. between gas and diesel cars.
Good luck with your Prius and customs, I know what a pain this can be.
cu
.\arc
Posted by Michelle Vadeboncoeur on September 26, 2008, 1:06 pm
> The car was purchased in the US and recently brought to Norway. I am trying
> to register it here. The problem is the customs duty is so steep, I need to
> be able to get credit for having a low-emissions vehicle. I am unable to
> find any documentation about this in the US (I have the data for the
> European model :104 g/km). I am pretty sure it is the same for the US cars
> but no one can verify it. I have spoken with the good folks at Toyota
> Norway and Toyota USA. They couldn't help me. I found this website
> (www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/prius_emissions.html) but it doesn't say
> which models it is referring to.
> This information is worth $500 off on the duty fees (which is close to
> $0,000). But I need official data, not a printout from a website.
> Can anyone help me?
You may also want to ask on:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-Europe/ (pan-Europe group,
mainly English-language)
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-Norden/ (Nordic group,
mainly Swedish-language)
http://priuschat.com/forums/international-owners/
Meanwhile, the official MPG ratings using the US EPA fuel economy
tests are:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/20934.shtml
(note that different countries use different tests... strangely, the
US EPA tests are the most stringent...)
Which lists the 2005 Toyota Prius at 48mpg city/45mpg highway/46mpg
combined.
They estimate 4.00 tons of CO2 per year, using the GREET model for the
full fuel-cycle.
<quote>
Annual Fuel Costs and Greenhouse Gas Estimates are based on 45%
highway driving, 55% city driving, and 15000 annual miles.
....
GHG-Greenhouse gas emissions expressed in CO2 equivalents. Estimates
include the full fuel cycle and exclude vehicle manufacture. (U.S.
Department of Energy, GREET Model, Argonne National Laboratory)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best/GHGemissions.shtml
</quote>
So, that's 46mpg average, 15000 miles in a year, 4.00 tons of CO2 in a
year
4.00 tons of CO2 = approx. 4.00 short tons = 3 628 738.96 grams
(google calculator)
3 628 738.96 grams / 15000 miles = 241.915931 g/mile
241.915931 g/mile * 1/1.609344 miles/km = 150.31959 g/km
On searching the 'net, I see reports of anywhere from 23 to 32 as the
multiplier to convert l/100km to grams of CO2 per km for a litre of
gasoline/petrol, but 24 seems more common.
46 US MPG = approx. 5.1130434 l/100km
5.11 l/100km * 24 (unit?) = 122.64 g/km
I'll note that hybridsynergydrive.com is an official Toyota site. the
page that you listed, http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/prius_emissions.=
html
, is specific for the Toyota Prius.
Meanwhile, I'll have to ask - why are you importing your US Prius into
Norway? Not only do you have the duty/customs problems, but any
warranty is gone in Europe, and you will not be able to source parts
if you have any problems. (For example, European Prius do not have
the North American emissions system (such as the bladder fuel tank),
nor the rear drum brakes (European Prius have rear disc brakes).
European Prius also have a different wheel size and suspension,
similar to the 2007-current US Touring Edition Prius. If you have
navigation, you will not be able to get a new DVD that'll work...)
Financially, it is usually easier to sell your US Prius in the US
(high resale), and then buy a new Prius in Europe when you're there,
than to import. (it's also difficult to sell a US spec car in Europe,
too.)
Posted by Kirsty Wursty on September 26, 2008, 8:20 pm
> The car was purchased in the US and recently brought to Norway. I am
> trying
> to register it here. The problem is the customs duty is so steep, I need
> to
> be able to get credit for having a low-emissions vehicle. I am unable to
> find any documentation about this in the US (I have the data for the
> European model :104 g/km). I am pretty sure it is the same for the US cars
> but no one can verify it. I have spoken with the good folks at Toyota
> Norway and Toyota USA. They couldn't help me. I found this website
> (www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/prius_emissions.html) but it doesn't say
> which models it is referring to.
> This information is worth $500 off on the duty fees (which is close to
> $0,000). But I need official data, not a printout from a website.
> Can anyone help me?
You may also want to ask on:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-Europe/ (pan-Europe group,
mainly English-language)
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-Norden/ (Nordic group,
mainly Swedish-language)
http://priuschat.com/forums/international-owners/
Meanwhile, the official MPG ratings using the US EPA fuel economy
tests are:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/20934.shtml
(note that different countries use different tests... strangely, the
US EPA tests are the most stringent...)
Which lists the 2005 Toyota Prius at 48mpg city/45mpg highway/46mpg
combined.
They estimate 4.00 tons of CO2 per year, using the GREET model for the
full fuel-cycle.
<quote>
Annual Fuel Costs and Greenhouse Gas Estimates are based on 45%
highway driving, 55% city driving, and 15000 annual miles.
....
GHG-Greenhouse gas emissions expressed in CO2 equivalents. Estimates
include the full fuel cycle and exclude vehicle manufacture. (U.S.
Department of Energy, GREET Model, Argonne National Laboratory)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best/GHGemissions.shtml
</quote>
So, that's 46mpg average, 15000 miles in a year, 4.00 tons of CO2 in a
year
4.00 tons of CO2 = approx. 4.00 short tons = 3 628 738.96 grams
(google calculator)
3 628 738.96 grams / 15000 miles = 241.915931 g/mile
241.915931 g/mile * 1/1.609344 miles/km = 150.31959 g/km
On searching the 'net, I see reports of anywhere from 23 to 32 as the
multiplier to convert l/100km to grams of CO2 per km for a litre of
gasoline/petrol, but 24 seems more common.
46 US MPG = approx. 5.1130434 l/100km
5.11 l/100km * 24 (unit?) = 122.64 g/km
I'll note that hybridsynergydrive.com is an official Toyota site. the
page that you listed,
http://www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/prius_emissions.html
, is specific for the Toyota Prius.
Meanwhile, I'll have to ask - why are you importing your US Prius into
Norway? Not only do you have the duty/customs problems, but any
warranty is gone in Europe, and you will not be able to source parts
if you have any problems. (For example, European Prius do not have
the North American emissions system (such as the bladder fuel tank),
nor the rear drum brakes (European Prius have rear disc brakes).
European Prius also have a different wheel size and suspension,
similar to the 2007-current US Touring Edition Prius. If you have
navigation, you will not be able to get a new DVD that'll work...)
Financially, it is usually easier to sell your US Prius in the US
(high resale), and then buy a new Prius in Europe when you're there,
than to import. (it's also difficult to sell a US spec car in Europe,
too.)
This was alot of good info. Maybe it will work. It is strange, however that
the European Prius has lower CO2 emissions than the US one (104 g/km).
I am importing the Prius because we have owned it for 1 1/2 years and I am
very happy with it. I did not want to spend the time and energy looking for
another one here and the same model runs for $5,000 so I am saving about
$0,000 when all is said and done. We are not planning to sell it, ever.
Cars are too expensive here. And the market for a used prius in Houston is
not good. When I bought this one, it had been on the lot for 6 months (and
they had 2 more!) so I would have lost some money there.
I wasn't aware that they were so different. They are made in the same
factory and my dealership here didn't seem to think that parts and such
would be a problem. We don't have a GPS and there is a button to convert to
km/hr. It doesn't convert the odometer, however, just the display.
Kirsten
Posted by Kirsty Wursty on September 28, 2008, 10:25 pm
> The car was purchased in the US and recently brought to Norway. I am
> trying to register it here. The problem is the customs duty is so steep, I
> need to be able to get credit for having a low-emissions vehicle. I am
> unable to find any documentation about this in the US (I have the data for
> the European model :104 g/km). I am pretty sure it is the same for the US
> cars but no one can verify it. I have spoken with the good folks at
> Toyota Norway and Toyota USA. They couldn't help me. I found this
> website (www.hybridsynergydrive.com/en/prius_emissions.html) but it
> doesn't say which models it is referring to.
> This information is worth $500 off on the duty fees (which is close to
> $0,000). But I need official data, not a printout from a website.
> Can anyone help me?
> Kirsten
While it is not the answer I was looking for, I received an e-mail from
Toyota headquarters stating that the conversion I am looking for does not
exist. I guess I will just pay the money then and start driving my
car! )after I replace the headlights...
Kirsten
XML site map
> Now there is an idea that might work. I had to take the car down to the
> "traffic station" where they do all their measurements. They had to weigh
> it themselves: American cars fall into a special category. They don't
> believe any of the data coming from the US.
:-)
> I was flabbergastet when they
> said they couldn't measure CO2 because they have all the instruments and
> hoses to hook up to the exhaust so they can tell you if your car pollutes
> too much. The customs office here is just like in the US, they can
> basically do what they want. When I tried to argue, their reasoning always
> goes back to: cars from the US fall into a special category. Now how can
> you argue with that!