Posted by *News* on June 13, 2008, 5:57 pm

Pete Granzeau wrote:

*> *

*> *

*>>>>What's the relationship cost per kWh power : cost per mile driven?*

*>>>*

*>>>I calculated the gas/electric equivalency at my off-peak rate a few *

*>>>years ago when the first plug-in Prius modifications became available. *

*>>>At my rate, which has since seen a slight increase, it was equivalent to *

*>>>70 cent/gallon gas. Since my electricity comes from coal I expect the *

*>>>cost to increase dramatically over the next couple of years but even if *

*>>>it doubles it will be equivalent to $.40/gallon gas. My present *

*>>>off-peak rate is .043/kwh. My electric co-op says they will "work with *

*>>>me" on configuring my off-peak system to accommodate a plug-in vehicle *

*>>>since there aren't any on their network now.*

*>>>*

*>>>The maximum all-electric range at the time I looked into this was 40 *

*>>>miles but I'd guess a practical range would be closer to 30 miles. *

*>>>There wouldn't be a big advantage to a traveling salesperson who drives *

*>>>200 miles a day since there wouldn't be an opportunity to recharge. *

*>>>Someone with a 30 mile or less round trip commute would save a bundle at *

*>>>my current off-peak rate since they could recharge regularily.*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>*

*>>Our 24 hour rate (no off-peak metering) is $.198 per kWh (and going up *

*>>with NatGas), so sounds as if this translates to $.50/gallon (and going *

*>>up). Not so compelling here.*

*> *

*> *

*> I don't believe it is possible to calculate the cost of electricity. *

Trust me. I can read my bill and do the math.

*> The rates change in summer, to start with. *

Not here, but even if so, so what?

Gasoline rates change in the northern hemisphere summer (go up) too.

*> Furthermore, there is a fixed charge for connection, and the rates *

> depend on how many kwh are consumed each month (so much for the first

Yes, and integrating, you get a bill, and do the math.

It's not rocket science.

Posted by *Pete Granzeau* on June 14, 2008, 7:06 pm

*>> I don't believe it is possible to calculate the cost of electricity. *

*>Trust me. I can read my bill and do the math.*

For one month. Next month may have a different rate structure.>

*>> The rates change in summer, to start with. *

*>Not here, but even if so, so what?*

So they do here. Which rate do you use to determine the cost of

electricity?

*>Gasoline rates change in the northern hemisphere summer (go up) too.*

*>> Furthermore, there is a fixed charge for connection, and the rates *

*> > depend on how many kwh are consumed each month (so much for the first*

*>Yes, and integrating, you get a bill, and do the math.*

*>It's not rocket science.*

And next month, you have a different rate per kwh.

Posted by *News* on June 14, 2008, 7:44 pm

Pete Granzeau wrote:

*> *

*> *

*>>>I don't believe it is possible to calculate the cost of electricity. *

*>>*

*>>*

*>>Trust me. I can read my bill and do the math.*

*> *

*> *

*> For one month. Next month may have a different rate structure.>*

*> *

Right, the rate almos guaranteed to go up with energy supply cost.

*>>>The rates change in summer, to start with. *

*>>*

*>>Not here, but even if so, so what?*

*> *

*> *

*> So they do here. Which rate do you use to determine the cost of*

*> electricity?*

*> *

My projection of the forward curve, rotating off the front month.

"High and higher."

*> *

*>>Gasoline rates change in the northern hemisphere summer (go up) too.*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>>Furthermore, there is a fixed charge for connection, and the rates *

*>>>depend on how many kwh are consumed each month (so much for the first*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>Yes, and integrating, you get a bill, and do the math.*

*>>*

*>>It's not rocket science.*

*> *

*> *

*> And next month, you have a different rate per kwh.*

No kidding, and no more of a case for a plug-in, around here at least.

As I say, at rates approaching $.20 per kWh, it's not rocket science.

No matter what sort of argument you want to make.

Posted by *Was Istloben* on June 14, 2008, 7:49 pm

*> Pete Granzeau wrote:*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>>>I don't believe it is possible to calculate the cost of electricity.*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>>Trust me. I can read my bill and do the math.*

*>>*

*>>*

*>> For one month. Next month may have a different rate structure.>*

*>>*

*> Right, the rate almos guaranteed to go up with energy supply cost.*

*>>>>The rates change in summer, to start with.*

*>>>*

*>>>Not here, but even if so, so what?*

*>>*

*>>*

*>> So they do here. Which rate do you use to determine the cost of*

*>> electricity?*

*>>*

*> My projection of the forward curve, rotating off the front month.*

*> "High and higher."*

*>>*

*>>>Gasoline rates change in the northern hemisphere summer (go up) too.*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>>>Furthermore, there is a fixed charge for connection, and the rates *

*>>>>depend on how many kwh are consumed each month (so much for the first*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>>Yes, and integrating, you get a bill, and do the math.*

*>>>*

*>>>It's not rocket science.*

*>>*

*>>*

*>> And next month, you have a different rate per kwh.*

*> No kidding, and no more of a case for a plug-in, around here at least.*

*> As I say, at rates approaching $.20 per kWh, it's not rocket science.*

*> No matter what sort of argument you want to make.*

If the Toyota version of the Prius PHEV carries a 10K premium I couldn't

cost justify it even at my low off-peak rate.

Posted by *News* on June 14, 2008, 9:05 pm

Was Istloben wrote:

*> *

*> *

*>>*

*>>*

*>> Pete Granzeau wrote:*

*>>*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>>>> I don't believe it is possible to calculate the cost of electricity.*

*>>>>*

*>>>>*

*>>>>*

*>>>> Trust me. I can read my bill and do the math.*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>> For one month. Next month may have a different rate structure.>*

*>>>*

*>>*

*>> Right, the rate almos guaranteed to go up with energy supply cost.*

*>>*

*>>>>> The rates change in summer, to start with.*

*>>>>*

*>>>>*

*>>>> Not here, but even if so, so what?*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>> So they do here. Which rate do you use to determine the cost of*

*>>> electricity?*

*>>>*

*>>*

*>> My projection of the forward curve, rotating off the front month.*

*>>*

*>> "High and higher."*

*>>*

*>>>*

*>>>> Gasoline rates change in the northern hemisphere summer (go up) too.*

*>>>>*

*>>>>*

*>>>>> Furthermore, there is a fixed charge for connection, and the rates *

*>>>>> depend on how many kwh are consumed each month (so much for the first*

*>>>>*

*>>>>*

*>>>>*

*>>>> Yes, and integrating, you get a bill, and do the math.*

*>>>>*

*>>>> It's not rocket science.*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>>*

*>>> And next month, you have a different rate per kwh.*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>*

*>> No kidding, and no more of a case for a plug-in, around here at least.*

*>>*

*>> As I say, at rates approaching $.20 per kWh, it's not rocket science.*

*>>*

*>> No matter what sort of argument you want to make.*

*> *

*> *

*> If the Toyota version of the Prius PHEV carries a 10K premium I couldn't *

*> cost justify it even at my low off-peak rate.*

Which is the price point of the aftermarket A123 battery system.

>>>>>>What's the relationship cost per kWh power : cost per mile driven?>>>>>>I calculated the gas/electric equivalency at my off-peak rate a few>>>years ago when the first plug-in Prius modifications became available.>>>At my rate, which has since seen a slight increase, it was equivalent to>>>70 cent/gallon gas. Since my electricity comes from coal I expect the>>>cost to increase dramatically over the next couple of years but even if>>>it doubles it will be equivalent to $.40/gallon gas. My present>>>off-peak rate is .043/kwh. My electric co-op says they will "work with>>>me" on configuring my off-peak system to accommodate a plug-in vehicle>>>since there aren't any on their network now.>>>>>>The maximum all-electric range at the time I looked into this was 40>>>miles but I'd guess a practical range would be closer to 30 miles.>>>There wouldn't be a big advantage to a traveling salesperson who drives>>>200 miles a day since there wouldn't be an opportunity to recharge.>>>Someone with a 30 mile or less round trip commute would save a bundle at>>>my current off-peak rate since they could recharge regularily.>>>>>>>>>>Our 24 hour rate (no off-peak metering) is $.198 per kWh (and going up>>with NatGas), so sounds as if this translates to $.50/gallon (and going>>up). Not so compelling here.>>> I don't believe it is possible to calculate the cost of electricity.