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Posted by Elmo P. Shagnasty on May 11, 2011, 11:52 am
 


no, I didn't quote out of context.  He said what he said very
plainly--because he's trying to twist things around to make things look
different than they are.

He thinks he needs to do that in order to convince people he's right.

Posted by Al Falfa on May 12, 2011, 1:46 am
 
"Elmo P. Shagnasty"  wrote in message



no, I didn't quote out of context.  He said what he said very
plainly--because he's trying to twist things around to make things look
different than they are.

He thinks he needs to do that in order to convince people he's right.


You don't know what "context" means.



Posted by Elmo P. Shagnasty on May 8, 2011, 1:59 pm
 In article


"Historically, it was also commonly used as a method to commit suicide,
usually by deliberately inhaling the exhaust fumes of a running car
engine. Modern cars with electronically controlled combustion and
catalytic converters produce so little carbon monoxide that this is much
less viable."

You have taken a simple Wiki entry--not a technical journal, not a
health journal, but a publicly editable web page--and declared it to be
Truth on par with actual edited technical and health journals, and
turned that into "it has a catalytic converter, therefore it doesn't
produce carbon monoxide".

In addition, you use that as "proof" that the Prius is a "superior car
to all others", even though all others ALSO have catalytic converters.

You are a total wacko.

Posted by bwilson4web on May 10, 2011, 9:59 pm
 On May 8, 8:06am, green...@neo.rr.com wrote:

Something kept nagging me at the back of the mind and suddenly I was
reminded of this:
http://www.parish-supply.com/propane_2400.htm

"Leading the industry in concern for the environment and the safety of
its operators; All propane machines come standard with Emissions Shut
Down System and Kill Switch.

  Run time is 5 to 6 hours per propane cylinder.
  Emissions protected by 3-way catalytic muffler.
. . . "

We have these huge, warehouse stores and super markets and the staff
are always running these things to clean and polish the floor. When I
first ran into them, I was concerned about carbon monoxide but one
whiff of the exhaust convienced me they were safe. The three-way
catalytic converter technology mentioned in the ad is what we have in
our Prius. In fact, monitoring of the catalytic converter is the
primary purpose of the "Check Engine" light . . .  to let us know when
it has failed. But you've got me thinking we can quantify the risk.

The California Air Resources Board publishes the carbon monoxide rate
for different vehicles and this can be used to calculate the total
amount generated per gallon burned and volume of exhaust gas. Then
using the CDC threshold, 100 ppm, as the safety limit, we can
calculate the 'at the tail pipe' concentration and how much dilute air
is needed to reach 100 ppm, if any. It is entirely possible that the
carbon dioxide level and absence of oxygen is the remaining risk from
running a Prius in an enclosed, air-tight garage. Carbon dioxide and
lack of oxygen can kill too but it takes a lot longer than carbon
monoxide. Carbon monoxide has over a 200 times greater affinity for
hemoglobin than oxygen which is why it so much more dangerous.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

Bob Wilson

Posted by bwilson4web on May 11, 2011, 12:29 am
 
This turned out to be very interesting!

CARB reports "0.4 gm/mile" of CO

Using 45 MPG, gasoline density, fuel/air mixture ratio, we can
calculate the CO PPM of straight exhaust from the catalytic converter:

409.46 ppm - CO, yes it exceeds the 100 ppm the CDC reports

It is also at 450F so before on could die of carbon monoxide
poisoning, the 450F temperature cooks your lungs, throat and you
basicly burn to death.

Ok, let's cool it down so it is breathable. The coolest temperature
was 50F so diluting the exhaust to bring it down to say 80F, only 7.5%
is exhaust and the carbon monoxide ratio is 30.71 ppm ... not fatal.

Ok, what is the temperature to reach 100 ppm, the CDC limit?

Well that ratio is 25.5% and a temperature of 148F. You don't suppose
you might notice it?

So to make make a poisonous, carbon monoxide gas mixture, it has to be
too hot to breath. If the mix is breathable, it won't kill you.

Bob Wilson

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