Hybrid Car – More Fun with Less Gas

Question about MPG - Page 12

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Posted by Davoud on August 14, 2006, 8:43 pm

Steve Pardoe wrote:

Surely the real problem is that your American friends have /not/ /yet/
come to appreciate the true cost of hydrocarbon consumption, either
political or environmental. A governing regime that is thoroughly
corrupted by greed for oil profits is doing its best to keep people
from thinking about that -- doctoring research, trying to gag
scientists, announcing that more study is needed to determine whether
global warming is real, in short, doing all that it can to sow doubt as
to whether reducing fossil fuel consumption is a desirable thing. GM --
let us all bow our heads and pray that it goes bankrupt soon, taking
Ford with it! -- is doing its part by offering to buy gasoline for
those who buy its 9 MPG SUV's.

We will find out in November of 2006 -- and in November, 2008 -- the
extent to which Americans understand anything that is going on around


usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Posted by mrv@kluge.net on August 15, 2006, 5:28 pm

Steve Pardoe wrote:

So what about Euro IV?  Diesels are under a different emissions rating
plan than petrol (gasoline) vehicles, mostly to diesel's benefit, under
the Euro standards.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards.html  to compare different emissions:

Euro standards:

Euro 4, Diesel
CO 0.50 g/km = 0.807 g/mi
HC (not rated)
HC+NOx 0.30 g/km = 0.483 g/mi
NOx 0.25 g/km = 0.402 g/mi
PM 0.025 g/km = 0.040 g/mi

Euro 4, Gasoline
CO 1.0 g/km = 1.609 g/mi
HC 0.10 g/km = 0.161 g/mi
HC+NOx (not rated)
NOx 0.08 g/km = 0.129 g/mi
PM (not rated)

remembering to convert from g/km to g/mile is helpful.  1 gram /
kilometer = 1.609344 grams / mile

The US Tier2 regs do not separate the fuel type, but treat the fuel and
the car as a whole system.  Because of the higher NOx and PM of diesel
fuel, they'll get classified in a lower Bin because of their emissions,
right next to an unclean gasoline car.

You can also view the US Tier2 and Tier 1 Emission standards here:

The US Prius meets the US Federal emission standards Tier 2 Bin 3, and
CA emission standard SULEV II (AT-PZEV).  (It's the same car sold with
50-state emissions, just that some states do not recognize the CA
emission categories.)  As an AT-PZEV, it must be guaranteed for 15
years/150,000 miles to meet the emissions standards, plus also have a
fully-sealed, zero emissions fuel system (no loss of evaporative

US Tier 2 Bin 3, Emission limits at 100,000-120,000 miles
NOx = 0.03 g/mi
NMOG = 0.055 g/mi
CO = 2.1 g/mi
PM = 0.01 g/mi
HCHO = 0.011 g/mi

CA SULEV II, Emission limits at 100,000-120,000 miles
NOx = 0.02 g/mi
NMOG = 0.010 g/mi
CO = 1.0 g/mi
PM = 0.01 g/mi
HCHO = 0.004 g/mi

My reading is that the Euro standards are very strict on CO, but if you
ignore that compound the Euro4 petrol standard is about a Tier2 Bin6,
and the Euro4 diesel standard is about a Tier2 Bin9c.  But I could be
wrong on my matching of data...

Most filling stations have diesel pumps.  The bigger problem is that
we're only starting to phase in low-sulfur diesel ( <15 ppm), which
Europeans have had for some time.  (sulfur pollutes emission control
systems and leads to higher emissions.)  I suppose once US diesel is as
clean as European fuel, we might start seeing more of the advanced
diesels the rest of the world has.

Of course, many Americans remember diesels of the past - unreliable in
winter, and belching large plumes of filthy smoke...  That conception
will be hard to break for future offered diesels.

(I'll also note that US OSHA (Occupational Health and Safety
Administration) has various regulations on diesel exhaust, but I
haven't seen the quite so many for gasoline (mainly just for auto
repair shops or drive-through restaurants).
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/dieselexhaust/standards.html   )

Posted by mark b on August 16, 2006, 10:21 pm

I have a four week old 2006.  I get about 48 around town (suburban) and
on the highway, but somewhat better in hilly rural terrain (up to 52).
I noticed that others have experienced this as well.  Tires are still
at original setting.  In a real city it drops to around 46.

I am trying to see if different brands of gas effect mileage.  My
latest tank of Getty seems to be doing better than the last tank
(Shell).   I am in upstate NY.


Michelle Steiner wrote:

Posted by Davoud on August 4, 2006, 5:26 am

nospam@nospam.org wrote:

Who is me? I missed your name. And your e-mail address is
nospam@nospam.org? There are ways of posting your e-mail address so
that it is not machine readable...


usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Posted by =?iso-8859-1?Q?mark=5Fdigital= on August 4, 2006, 9:31 am

I can tell a Prius isn't in your future. Buy something else which already
has a bad reputation that can't suffer from more negativity.

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