Posted by Jeff DeWitt on August 8, 2007, 12:22 am
Michael Pardee wrote:
>> I think the current hybrid technology is very much a transitional
>> technology, much as the turboprop was. Technologies like GM is developing
>> for the Chevy Volt are going to become a lot more common than current
>> hybrid technology.
>>
>
> I disagree with that. I see hybridization as a central enabling technology
> for passenger cars for at least half a century. The primary power source may
> not always be a combustion engine; hybridization works well with fuel cells,
> as Toyota is finding. The essence of hybridization is to provide an
> optimized load for the power generation regardless of what the nut behind
> the wheel is doing with his right foot, and in so doing it makes
> acceleration performance increasingly independent of the size of the power
> source.
>
> Even in the present generation (no pun) hybrids are disconnecting
> accessories from the engine. I see that as a crucial step toward any future
> cars.
>
> BTW - turboprops are still a modern powerplant and eminently practical for
> shorter hops where turbofans are just too inefficient or where runways are
> too short. The wife and I just returned from Alaska and made the Vancouver
> to Seattle leg on a Bombardier turboprop. When flying higher and faster
> turbofans come into their own.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
I stand corrected on turboprops, however please note I said the CURRENT
hybrid technology. A Prius or similar car is more of a gas powered car
with an electric assist and because of that it's a lot more complex and
expensive than it needs to be (and so also less efficient).
They ARE an advancement over conventional drivetrains, and your right
about the usefulness of disconnecting the engine from the accessories,
that is going to become increasingly important as automotive technology
advances.
And of course you do realize there is a form of hybrid technology that
has been performing a vital roll in Americas transportation system for
the last 50 years or so... the diesel locomotive.
Jeff DeWitt
Posted by Marc Gerges on August 8, 2007, 11:14 am
> And of course you do realize there is a form of hybrid technology that
> has been performing a vital roll in Americas transportation system for
> the last 50 years or so... the diesel locomotive.
Although many diesel locomotive are diesel electric, there's no buffer
battery between the diesel engine and the train. The generator-traction
motor setup is nothing more than the system that transmit power from the
engine to the wheels.
cu
.\arc
Posted by Jeff DeWitt on August 9, 2007, 2:02 am
Marc Gerges wrote:
>> And of course you do realize there is a form of hybrid technology that
>> has been performing a vital roll in Americas transportation system for
>> the last 50 years or so... the diesel locomotive.
>
> Although many diesel locomotive are diesel electric, there's no buffer
> battery between the diesel engine and the train. The generator-traction
> motor setup is nothing more than the system that transmit power from the
> engine to the wheels.
>
> cu
> .\arc
True, but having diesel engines and electric motors meets the dictionary
definition of hybrid.
"something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has
two different types of components performing essentially the same function"
Both the diesel engine and the electric motors produce mechanical energy
sufficient to operate the locomotive... and yes I realize I'm being a
bit picky here <G>
Jeff DeWitt
Posted by Michael Pardee on August 9, 2007, 3:15 am
> Marc Gerges wrote:
>>> And of course you do realize there is a form of hybrid technology that
>>> has been performing a vital roll in Americas transportation system for
>>> the last 50 years or so... the diesel locomotive.
>>
>> Although many diesel locomotive are diesel electric, there's no buffer
>> battery between the diesel engine and the train. The generator-traction
>> motor setup is nothing more than the system that transmit power from the
>> engine to the wheels.
>>
>> cu
>> .\arc
> True, but having diesel engines and electric motors meets the dictionary
> definition of hybrid.
> "something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two
> different types of components performing essentially the same function"
> Both the diesel engine and the electric motors produce mechanical energy
> sufficient to operate the locomotive... and yes I realize I'm being a bit
> picky here <G>
> Jeff DeWitt
If I'm understanding it right, the electric part is merely a transmission
rather than a motive source. Oddly, "how stuff works" still refers to it as
a hybrid system although there is no secondary source of electric power; it
comes straight from the diesel. The train doesn't move if the engines aren't
generating power. Now it's my turn to be picky ;-)
http://travel.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive.htm
Mike
Posted by Jeff DeWitt on August 9, 2007, 3:27 am
Michael Pardee wrote:
>> Marc Gerges wrote:
>>>> And of course you do realize there is a form of hybrid technology that
>>>> has been performing a vital roll in Americas transportation system for
>>>> the last 50 years or so... the diesel locomotive.
>>> Although many diesel locomotive are diesel electric, there's no buffer
>>> battery between the diesel engine and the train. The generator-traction
>>> motor setup is nothing more than the system that transmit power from the
>>> engine to the wheels.
>>>
>>> cu
>>> .\arc
>> True, but having diesel engines and electric motors meets the dictionary
>> definition of hybrid.
>>
>> "something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two
>> different types of components performing essentially the same function"
>>
>> Both the diesel engine and the electric motors produce mechanical energy
>> sufficient to operate the locomotive... and yes I realize I'm being a bit
>> picky here <G>
>>
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
> If I'm understanding it right, the electric part is merely a transmission
> rather than a motive source. Oddly, "how stuff works" still refers to it as
> a hybrid system although there is no secondary source of electric power; it
> comes straight from the diesel. The train doesn't move if the engines aren't
> generating power. Now it's my turn to be picky ;-)
> http://travel.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive.htm
>
> Mike
>
>
>
I wonder... In the northeast there are a lot of trains that get their
power from overhead wires. I wonder if any of those locomotives also
have diesel engines to provide power when the overhead lines aren't
available.
Jeff DeWitt
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>> technology, much as the turboprop was. Technologies like GM is developing
>> for the Chevy Volt are going to become a lot more common than current
>> hybrid technology.
>>
>
> I disagree with that. I see hybridization as a central enabling technology
> for passenger cars for at least half a century. The primary power source may
> not always be a combustion engine; hybridization works well with fuel cells,
> as Toyota is finding. The essence of hybridization is to provide an
> optimized load for the power generation regardless of what the nut behind
> the wheel is doing with his right foot, and in so doing it makes
> acceleration performance increasingly independent of the size of the power
> source.
>
> Even in the present generation (no pun) hybrids are disconnecting
> accessories from the engine. I see that as a crucial step toward any future
> cars.
>
> BTW - turboprops are still a modern powerplant and eminently practical for
> shorter hops where turbofans are just too inefficient or where runways are
> too short. The wife and I just returned from Alaska and made the Vancouver
> to Seattle leg on a Bombardier turboprop. When flying higher and faster
> turbofans come into their own.
>
> Mike
>
>
>