I had an interesting thought today concerning a more efficient use of my PV
system for pumping water...
My outside rainwater collection tanks are black... the big, 500 gallon tank,
is cast iron, and I painted that flat back in May of 2001.... the smaller,
80 gallon household tank is made of black vinyl....
On sunny days, these two tanks absorb the heat from the sun and the water
inside the tanks is heated up naturally.... On cold days, that is not the
case... and the household water is sometimes, cold.... that is my first
concern.... but there is another concern...
The second concern is that the 1/6 hp flotec pump in not a high pressure
pump.... I have made an On-Demand household water system that is 'not'
pressurized... the water only runs into the house when the Intermatic timer
is turned on... the timer runs a few minutes then turns off
automatically.... I set it up this way to prevent accidentally leaving the
pump motor on... using a system like this cuts my PV electricity load down
to manageable levels... so even using an 8 PV system, I have sufficient
power to occasionally run the system 'on demand' pulling the 275 watts of
power that the submersible pump uses....and the PV system and the pump load
have run good for the last 4 years... but, sometimes, the water is pressure
is minimally low.... which seems to depend on temperature and time of day,
and the size of the water pipes...
So, here in my thought....
Instead of using the small, 1/6 hp Submersible Flotec pump outside pump the
water as an 'On Demand' system, I could add a water capacitor to the attic,
right above the bathroom... a water capacitor is much like an electrical
capacitor, which stores electrical energy... the water capacitor is merely
another 10 or 20 gallon tank that stores water for immediate use... and this
tank could be installed in the attic, above the bathroom and in the attic
space above the kitchen.... and the tanks would be small enough not to cause
a heavy load on the Ceiling Joists... I think a gallon of water weighs
about 8 pounds... so a 10 gallon tank would weigh about 80 pounds.... and a
20 gallon tank would weigh about 160 pounds.... If a person built a platform
to spread the load over several ceiling joists and maybe over a load bearing
wall.... then the water load would be minimal even if a 80 gallon tank is
used....
Now... why is it necessary to construct the rainwater 'on-demand' this way?
Well, I have an answer.... when the Submersible pump is temporarily on, its
new job is to top off the small attic tanks which remain full all the time
because the pump switch is turned on whenever water is used in the shower or
in the faucet... I turn it on every time I use my house water... there is a
small difference in timing, too... when I shower , I set the Intermatic
timer to about 5 or 6 minutes... if I take a quick shower, I may use only 3
or 4 minutes of pump time for the shower, so the pump may run a few minutes
while no water is used... so this small amount of pump power is wasted....
but, if the water is refilling the small attic tank, then even if there is
no water usage, then the tank is likely being refilled, with little power
wasted...
There is more than this small power savings to think about....
If the attic capacitor tank is metal, and painted flat black, then it will
absorb attic heat... and heat the water inside... even in the winter months,
my attic is usually warm.... I realize that in some areas, the temperatures,
even in attic, are way to cold for this kind of water heating.... but in
temperate climates, it should be possible to set up the extra tank to
accumulate water, save a bit of pumping energy, and heat the stored water in
the tank at the same time... and my attic during hot summer days usually
exceeds 150 degrees... during the winter, the temperatures can be about 100
degrees, more or less...
There is something that also could be done to boost the tank heat even more
using solar cooker principals... and that is to surround the attic tank with
a glass box, a little like an aquarium box which will allow radiant heat to
enter, but the glass will block some of the accumulated from escaping... I
think this kind of glass box could boost the attic heater tank a few more
degrees...
The final benefit, is that On-Demand pump pressure may no longer needed for
house pressure.... gravity pressure will do fine... I am currently using an
outlet from the bottom of my 500 gallon tank to water my container garden
every day... and this watering is done through a 75 foot garden hose, with a
plastic spray nozzle on the open end... and there is not pump involve, it is
all done by gravity pressure... the spray nozzle is about two or three feet
lower than the tank when it is topped off... head pressure of water at the
exit nozzle is about a half pound per foot... so I am using a spray nozzle
to water my vegetables with only a pound to a pound and a half of gravity
pressure from the large tank.... and I know.... that city water pressure is
about 50 psi, but I can get along nicely with much lower gravity pressure...
A tank in the attic, would add a more head pressure as well as heat to the
water because of its height... and since a topped off attic water tank would
have about 7 feet of head pressure... then the nozzle pressure at the outlet
would be about 3.5 pounds of gravity pressure... and this will make any
large, flat nozzle shower, work nicely... it will be three times the
pressure than a garden watering can....
Anyway.... the thought of increasing my home water temperature a bit, as
well as having a reservoir of attic water to take advantage of a little
bit of gravity pressure appeals to me...
Has anyone ever done this?
Gig
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We have two 55 gallon drums in the attic that fill with rainwater for
showers and washing. We can fill them with well water if necessary. We
currently do not run a pressurized system either.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rainwater/
--
Steve Spence
Renewable energy and sustainable living
http://www.green-trust.org
Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel
powered diesels at
http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/
> I had an interesting thought today concerning a more efficient use of my
PV
> system for pumping water...
> My outside rainwater collection tanks are black... the big, 500 gallon
tank,
> is cast iron, and I painted that flat back in May of 2001.... the smaller,
> 80 gallon household tank is made of black vinyl....
> On sunny days, these two tanks absorb the heat from the sun and the water
> inside the tanks is heated up naturally.... On cold days, that is not the
> case... and the household water is sometimes, cold.... that is my first
> concern.... but there is another concern...
> The second concern is that the 1/6 hp flotec pump in not a high pressure
> pump.... I have made an On-Demand household water system that is 'not'
> pressurized... the water only runs into the house when the Intermatic
timer
> is turned on... the timer runs a few minutes then turns off
> automatically.... I set it up this way to prevent accidentally leaving the
> pump motor on... using a system like this cuts my PV electricity load down
> to manageable levels... so even using an 8 PV system, I have sufficient
> power to occasionally run the system 'on demand' pulling the 275 watts of
> power that the submersible pump uses....and the PV system and the pump
load
> have run good for the last 4 years... but, sometimes, the water is
pressure
> is minimally low.... which seems to depend on temperature and time of day,
> and the size of the water pipes...
> So, here in my thought....
> Instead of using the small, 1/6 hp Submersible Flotec pump outside pump
the
> water as an 'On Demand' system, I could add a water capacitor to the
attic,
> right above the bathroom... a water capacitor is much like an electrical
> capacitor, which stores electrical energy... the water capacitor is merely
> another 10 or 20 gallon tank that stores water for immediate use... and
this
> tank could be installed in the attic, above the bathroom and in the attic
> space above the kitchen.... and the tanks would be small enough not to
cause
> a heavy load on the Ceiling Joists... I think a gallon of water weighs
> about 8 pounds... so a 10 gallon tank would weigh about 80 pounds.... and
a
> 20 gallon tank would weigh about 160 pounds.... If a person built a
platform
> to spread the load over several ceiling joists and maybe over a load
bearing
> wall.... then the water load would be minimal even if a 80 gallon tank is
> used....
> Now... why is it necessary to construct the rainwater 'on-demand' this
way?
> Well, I have an answer.... when the Submersible pump is temporarily on,
its
> new job is to top off the small attic tanks which remain full all the time
> because the pump switch is turned on whenever water is used in the shower
or
> in the faucet... I turn it on every time I use my house water... there is
a
> small difference in timing, too... when I shower , I set the Intermatic
> timer to about 5 or 6 minutes... if I take a quick shower, I may use only
3
> or 4 minutes of pump time for the shower, so the pump may run a few
minutes
> while no water is used... so this small amount of pump power is
wasted....
> but, if the water is refilling the small attic tank, then even if there is
> no water usage, then the tank is likely being refilled, with little power
> wasted...
> There is more than this small power savings to think about....
> If the attic capacitor tank is metal, and painted flat black, then it will
> absorb attic heat... and heat the water inside... even in the winter
months,
> my attic is usually warm.... I realize that in some areas, the
temperatures,
> even in attic, are way to cold for this kind of water heating.... but in
> temperate climates, it should be possible to set up the extra tank to
> accumulate water, save a bit of pumping energy, and heat the stored water
in
> the tank at the same time... and my attic during hot summer days usually
> exceeds 150 degrees... during the winter, the temperatures can be about
100
> degrees, more or less...
> There is something that also could be done to boost the tank heat even
more
> using solar cooker principals... and that is to surround the attic tank
with
> a glass box, a little like an aquarium box which will allow radiant heat
to
> enter, but the glass will block some of the accumulated from escaping... I
> think this kind of glass box could boost the attic heater tank a few more
> degrees...
> The final benefit, is that On-Demand pump pressure may no longer needed
for
> house pressure.... gravity pressure will do fine... I am currently using
an
> outlet from the bottom of my 500 gallon tank to water my container garden
> every day... and this watering is done through a 75 foot garden hose, with
a
> plastic spray nozzle on the open end... and there is not pump involve, it
is
> all done by gravity pressure... the spray nozzle is about two or three
feet
> lower than the tank when it is topped off... head pressure of water at the
> exit nozzle is about a half pound per foot... so I am using a spray
nozzle
> to water my vegetables with only a pound to a pound and a half of gravity
> pressure from the large tank.... and I know.... that city water pressure
is
> about 50 psi, but I can get along nicely with much lower gravity
pressure...
> A tank in the attic, would add a more head pressure as well as heat to
the
> water because of its height... and since a topped off attic water tank
would
> have about 7 feet of head pressure... then the nozzle pressure at the
outlet
> would be about 3.5 pounds of gravity pressure... and this will make any
> large, flat nozzle shower, work nicely... it will be three times the
> pressure than a garden watering can....
> Anyway.... the thought of increasing my home water temperature a bit, as
> well as having a reservoir of attic water to take advantage of a little
> bit of gravity pressure appeals to me...
> Has anyone ever done this?
> Gig
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> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
> I'll be setting up 2 solar thermal loops.
The gravity feed seemed more natural than a high pressure electric pressure
pump feed... high pressure pipes do not appear in nature... and I wonder
sometimes, if a high pressure water tank somehow destroys the beneficial
nature of the water used...
I guess I have two questions... is there sufficient heat in the attic to
keep the water reasonably warm? and are you concerned about the weight of
the 55 gallon water tanks?
and maybe there is a third question.... how do you like the gravity feed,
as opposed to a high pressure pump feed?
It seems like I could also put a solar 'heat' panel in the attic... and use
the attic heat to thermosyphon to collect any ambient attic heat and
transfer it into the tank... setting the tank up with a thermosyphon loop
using antifreeze in the loop would collect a lot more infa red attic heat,
and if I constructed the tank this way, I could eliminate a PV powered loop,
using the heat itself to circulate the infrared heat to circulate the loop
through the water tank.... then I could insulate the tank itself without
building a glass box around it...
Gig
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PV
> system for pumping water...
> My outside rainwater collection tanks are black... the big, 500 gallon
tank,
> is cast iron, and I painted that flat back in May of 2001.... the smaller,
> 80 gallon household tank is made of black vinyl....
> On sunny days, these two tanks absorb the heat from the sun and the water
> inside the tanks is heated up naturally.... On cold days, that is not the
> case... and the household water is sometimes, cold.... that is my first
> concern.... but there is another concern...
> The second concern is that the 1/6 hp flotec pump in not a high pressure
> pump.... I have made an On-Demand household water system that is 'not'
> pressurized... the water only runs into the house when the Intermatic
timer
> is turned on... the timer runs a few minutes then turns off
> automatically.... I set it up this way to prevent accidentally leaving the
> pump motor on... using a system like this cuts my PV electricity load down
> to manageable levels... so even using an 8 PV system, I have sufficient
> power to occasionally run the system 'on demand' pulling the 275 watts of
> power that the submersible pump uses....and the PV system and the pump
load
> have run good for the last 4 years... but, sometimes, the water is