Posted by bcps on February 6, 2007, 6:49 pm
Slightly off topic for this group, but it is not unheard of to produce
hydrogen from photovoltaics.
Jadoo Power seems to be an aggressive manufacturer of consumer based fuel
cells. I could be wrong, but the components and stats seem to almost equal
the price of a solar system. I think they are still too high in price, but
the portability is a plus.
I've always been interested in fuel cells as an alternative to batteries and
I was hoping some of you folks might give me a hint on the up's and down's
of these things.
I'm suspecting the membrane and the catalyst don't last as long as a solar
cell or basic deep cycle battery (read "efficiency") - and, there is that
nasty problem of explosions.
I'm guessing the technology just hasn't hit it's peek yet, but it certainly
would be cool to hear some comments.
Bart
Posted by rlsusenet@NOSPAMPUHLEEZschnapp on February 6, 2007, 10:31 pm
bcps wrote:
> Slightly off topic for this group, but it is not unheard of to produce
> hydrogen from photovoltaics.
>
> Jadoo Power seems to be an aggressive manufacturer of consumer based fuel
> cells. I could be wrong, but the components and stats seem to almost equal
> the price of a solar system. I think they are still too high in price, but
> the portability is a plus.
>
> I've always been interested in fuel cells as an alternative to batteries and
> I was hoping some of you folks might give me a hint on the up's and down's
> of these things.
>
> I'm suspecting the membrane and the catalyst don't last as long as a solar
> cell or basic deep cycle battery (read "efficiency") - and, there is that
> nasty problem of explosions.
>
> I'm guessing the technology just hasn't hit it's peek yet, but it certainly
> would be cool to hear some comments.
>
> Bart
Hydrolysis from photovoltaics is not a good prospect as a
fuel-production mechanism. You already throw away most of the incoming
energy when you use photovoltaics (efficiency for current affordable
terrestrial panels is around 20%). Presumably, there is yet another
large loss of efficiency in the electro-hydrolysis process. It's
probably not even a very good prospect for energy storage, compared to
conventional chemical batteries.
Perhaps some of the photochemical or biological hydrolysis processes
will be better prospects.
Posted by Steve Spence on February 7, 2007, 9:42 pm
bcps wrote:
> Slightly off topic for this group, but it is not unheard of to produce
> hydrogen from photovoltaics.
>
> Jadoo Power seems to be an aggressive manufacturer of consumer based fuel
> cells. I could be wrong, but the components and stats seem to almost equal
> the price of a solar system. I think they are still too high in price, but
> the portability is a plus.
>
> I've always been interested in fuel cells as an alternative to batteries and
> I was hoping some of you folks might give me a hint on the up's and down's
> of these things.
>
> I'm suspecting the membrane and the catalyst don't last as long as a solar
> cell or basic deep cycle battery (read "efficiency") - and, there is that
> nasty problem of explosions.
>
> I'm guessing the technology just hasn't hit it's peek yet, but it certainly
> would be cool to hear some comments.
>
> Bart
>
>
solar to battery is 80% efficient, solar to hydrogen to electric is 40%
at best. Those numbers aren't likely to change in the near future.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
Posted by Duane C. Johnson on February 7, 2007, 10:33 pm
Hi Steve;
> bcps wrote:
> > Slightly off topic for this group, but it is not
> > unheard of to produce hydrogen from photovoltaics.
Of course it can be done.
But electricity has a much greater value than hydrogen
in most cases. Sure there are some niche uses such as
the Space Shuttle, in frequently used back power,
and future laptops & cell phones. Basically applications
where fuel costs are of little concern and light weight
is more important.
But certainly not for general use.
> > Jadoo Power seems to be an aggressive manufacturer
> > of consumer based fuel cells. I could be wrong,
> > but the components and stats seem to almost equal
> > the price of a solar system. I think they are still
> > too high in price, but the portability is a plus.
> > I've always been interested in fuel cells as an
> > alternative to batteries and I was hoping some of
> > you folks might give me a hint on the up's and
> > down's of these things.
> > I'm suspecting the membrane and the catalyst don't
> > last as long as a solar cell or basic deep cycle
> > battery (read "efficiency") - and, there is that
> > nasty problem of explosions.
> > I'm guessing the technology just hasn't hit it's
> > peek yet, but it certainly would be cool to hear
> > some comments.
While we welcome improvements in fuel cell technology
this is not the bottle neck. The limitation is in
the generation of the hydrogen itself.
> > Bart
> solar to battery is 80% efficient,
Hardly!
The battery alone is about 80% efficient at being
charged from electricity.
If you add a 15% efficient solar to electricity
PV panel your down to about 12%.
> solar to hydrogen to electric is 40% at best.
Again the solar PV panel to electric is the
dominant loss.
I suppose one could go more exotic and use the
40% concentrator cells we have been hearing about.
> Those numbers aren't likely to change in the
> near future.
Those efficiencies are not remotely obtainable
if conventional solar technologies are used.
Duane
--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm [*]
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Posted by Steve Spence on February 7, 2007, 10:44 pm
Duane C. Johnson wrote:
> Hi Steve;
>
>
> > bcps wrote:
>
> > > Slightly off topic for this group, but it is not
> > > unheard of to produce hydrogen from photovoltaics.
>
> Of course it can be done.
> But electricity has a much greater value than hydrogen
> in most cases. Sure there are some niche uses such as
> the Space Shuttle, in frequently used back power,
> and future laptops & cell phones. Basically applications
> where fuel costs are of little concern and light weight
> is more important.
>
> But certainly not for general use.
>
> > > Jadoo Power seems to be an aggressive manufacturer
> > > of consumer based fuel cells. I could be wrong,
> > > but the components and stats seem to almost equal
> > > the price of a solar system. I think they are still
> > > too high in price, but the portability is a plus.
>
> > > I've always been interested in fuel cells as an
> > > alternative to batteries and I was hoping some of
> > > you folks might give me a hint on the up's and
> > > down's of these things.
>
> > > I'm suspecting the membrane and the catalyst don't
> > > last as long as a solar cell or basic deep cycle
> > > battery (read "efficiency") - and, there is that
> > > nasty problem of explosions.
>
> > > I'm guessing the technology just hasn't hit it's
> > > peek yet, but it certainly would be cool to hear
> > > some comments.
>
> While we welcome improvements in fuel cell technology
> this is not the bottle neck. The limitation is in
> the generation of the hydrogen itself.
>
> > > Bart
>
> > solar to battery is 80% efficient,
>
> Hardly!
> The battery alone is about 80% efficient at being
> charged from electricity.
> If you add a 15% efficient solar to electricity
> PV panel your down to about 12%.
>
> > solar to hydrogen to electric is 40% at best.
>
> Again the solar PV panel to electric is the
> dominant loss.
>
> I suppose one could go more exotic and use the
> 40% concentrator cells we have been hearing about.
>
> > Those numbers aren't likely to change in the
> > near future.
>
> Those efficiencies are not remotely obtainable
> if conventional solar technologies are used.
>
> Duane
>
I didn't write most of that. When I wrote solar to battery as being 80%,
I was referring to 80% of the pv electric gets stored in the batteries.
40% of the solar electric makes it back to electric by way of hydrogen.
Since the solar is the same in both examples, I'm ignoring the pv panel
efficiency in both pocesses. I'm no fan of hydrogen.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
XML site map
> hydrogen from photovoltaics.
>
> Jadoo Power seems to be an aggressive manufacturer of consumer based fuel
> cells. I could be wrong, but the components and stats seem to almost equal
> the price of a solar system. I think they are still too high in price, but
> the portability is a plus.
>
> I've always been interested in fuel cells as an alternative to batteries and
> I was hoping some of you folks might give me a hint on the up's and down's
> of these things.
>
> I'm suspecting the membrane and the catalyst don't last as long as a solar
> cell or basic deep cycle battery (read "efficiency") - and, there is that
> nasty problem of explosions.
>
> I'm guessing the technology just hasn't hit it's peek yet, but it certainly
> would be cool to hear some comments.
>
> Bart