Posted by *bealiba* on July 15, 2008, 11:30 pm

Pavlov

*> He seems smart enough to invoke many responses from the so-called*

*> "brainchilds" here. Where does that put you?*

*> Maybe a little maturity would help you out?*

*> > I was trying to help you formulate a real world system to run through the*

*> > simulation. Clearly, that is beyond your ability. Sad. Especially for*

*> > one who claims to be knowledgeable in this field.*

*> > In another post, GG writes about me: "He has learned more about solar*

*> > in the last two weeks than he ever learned in the last 10 years."*

*> > What I've learned in the last two weeks is that GG is even less competent,*

*> > and less able to learn, than I had originally concluded. That shouldn't*

*> > be*

*> > a surprise, I know. But I did have hopes.*

*> > He can't specify either a real world panel or a real world battery for his*

*> > Kilauea water pump system. He can only come up with unrealistic*

*> > specifications, and, when real world specifications are proposed to him,*

*> > he*

*> > can neither accept them, nor propose different ones.*

*> > And then, to compound his errors, he writes:*

*> >>This is your best guess is it? From the standard test temp of 25C my*

*> >>checking shows that at 45C:*

*> >>1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current*

*> >>2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage*

*> >>3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.*

*> > If his 45C is an ambient temperature, he's someplace far from Kilauea, HI*

*> > where the highest annual temp is around 33C, and the average annual temp*

*> > is*

*> > about 29C.*

*> > If he's trying to compare what happens at STC (which is at 25C), when we*

*> > change the conditions so that the operating cell temperature (OCT) is the*

*> > NOCT, then he doesn't know what NOCT is or how to calculate it.*

*> > Hint for GG: The OCT at STC will be higher than the NOCT.*

*> > --ron*

Posted by *Ron Rosenfeld* on July 16, 2008, 1:52 am

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:20:14 -0400, "Solar Flare"

*>He seems smart enough to invoke many responses from the so-called *

*>"brainchilds" here. Where does that put you?*

*>Maybe a little maturity would help you out?*

Yeah, I know. Trying to have a discussion with George is like mud

wrestling with a pig.

--ron

Posted by *bealiba* on July 15, 2008, 11:28 pm

*> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:46:05 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*> >> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:02:23 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*> >> >> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:21:56 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*> >> >> >> GG: C8 Selected module I at 14 volts at NOCT 2.94A*

*> >> >> >14 volts is the test standard at 25C. 17 volts is what the produces*

*> >> >> >when not connected to a load. Surprised you don't know this.*

*> >> >> No, I was not aware of a test standard that specified a particular voltage*

*> >> >> for the PV cell.*

*> >> >> What standard is that?*

*> >> >> The standards I've seen with regard to PV panels are STC and PTC.*

*> >> >> But they both refer to wattage ratings under specified conditions of*

*> >> >> irradiance, temperature and, for the PTC standard, wind speed. Neither one*

*> >> >> mentions a particular voltage.*

*> >> >> NOCT is not mentioned in either of those standards, and the irradiance used*

*> >> >> to determine NOCT is not the same as that used in either STC or PTC*

*> >> >> standards.*

*> >> >> --ron*

*> >> >Sad.*

*> >> It is truly sad that reality does not match George's fantasy.*

*> >> --ron*

*> >We're still waiting on your all inclusive spread sheet that allows for*

*> >all the solar equipment in the world and complete pricing for same.*

*> I'm sure *YOU* would require something like that, so you can blame any of*

*> your misguided recommendations on whoever devised the database. But a real*

*> solar power consultant would not.*

You are the one that suggested that such a SS would be a good thing.

*> >We are also waiting for yor caluclation for the numbers you proposed*

*> >for this post;*

*> And I'm waiting to see if you agree with any of them. Clearly, you cannot*

*> recommend an efficient real-world system.*

The numbers you provided add up to 11 panels.

*> >From Tweedledee -*

*> >Let's get back to this challenge of yours, as to whether your*

*> >specifications will run the OP's 2500watt pump 1/2 hour per day, every*

*> >day.*

*> >You give incomplete specifications, so it's a tough to run a*

*> >simulation.*

*> >But perhaps, if you can fill in a few details, or agree with some of*

*> >my*

*> >assumptions, we can proceed with a simulation:*

*> >With regard to your selected module:*

*> >>C8 Selected module I at 14 volts at NOCT 2.94A*

*> >Does this mean it has an STC nameplate power rating of 14*2.94 = 41.16*

*> >watts? Or is the STC nameplate power rating something else?*

*> >>C13 Number of parallel strings of modules (C5 / C12) = 10.3*

*> >I will round this up to 11.*

*> >Do you want to consider the effect of temperature on the module?*

*> >If you do, then we need to use some assumptions about the temperature*

*> >coefficient, NOCT and MPPT efficiency at std. test conditions.*

*> >I would assume*

*> > Temperature coefficient of power = -0.5%/C*

*> > NOCT 45.2C*

*> > MPPT Efficiency at std test cond 13%*

*> >but we can use different values if you like, or ignore temperature*

*> >affects*

*> >completely.*

*> >With regard to the battery, you have supplied this information:*

*> >>B2 Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%*

*> >>B13 Capacity of battery bank at 100 hr rate (B12 x B10) = 225*

*> >>C4 Battery efficiency = 90%*

*> >The real world battery I could find (in my database) closest to these*

*> >specifications:*

*> >Trojan T105*

*> > Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%*

*> > Capacity at 100 hr rate = 240*

*> > Efficiency 85%*

*> >So I would use two of these in series to provide a 12V battery bank.*

*> >Well, come on you have the formula, these are the numbers you feel*

*> >should be used, show us the calculation.*

*> I was trying to help you formulate a real world system to run through the*

*> simulation. Clearly, that is beyond your ability. Sad. Especially for*

*> one who claims to be knowledgeable in this field.*

Can't do it can you

*> In another post, GG writes about me: "He has learned more about solar*

*> in the last two weeks than he ever learned in the last 10 years."*

*> What I've learned in the last two weeks is that GG is even less competent,*

*> and less able to learn, than I had originally concluded. That shouldn't be*

*> a surprise, I know. But I did have hopes.*

Wow!

*> He can't specify either a real world panel or a real world battery for his*

*> Kilauea water pump system. He can only come up with unrealistic*

*> specifications, and, when real world specifications are proposed to him, he*

*> can neither accept them, nor propose different ones.*

180 Ah is true and correct minimum capacity for the job.

*> And then, to compound his errors, he writes:*

*> >This is your best guess is it? From the standard test temp of 25C my*

*> >checking shows that at 45C:*

*> >1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current*

*> >2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage*

*> >3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.*

*> If his 45C is an ambient temperature, he's someplace far from Kilauea, HI*

*> where the highest annual temp is around 33C, and the average annual temp is*

*> about 29C.*

The 45.2C was your number. The results I have shown are correct.

*> If he's trying to compare what happens at STC (which is at 25C), when we*

*> change the conditions so that the operating cell temperature (OCT) is the*

*> NOCT, then he doesn't know what NOCT is or how to calculate it.*

From the standard test temp of 25C my

*> >checking shows that at 45C:*

*> >1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current*

*> >2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage*

*> >3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.*

STC is the standard. The numbers given are what you get when you raist

the OCT to 45C.

Care to prove it wrong. But no, you can't. Sill of me to ask.

*> Hint for GG: The OCT at STC will be higher than the NOCT.*

*> --ron*

Posted by *Ron Rosenfeld* on July 16, 2008, 1:49 am

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:28:59 -0700 (PDT), bealiba@gmail.com wrote:

*>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:46:05 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*>> >> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:02:23 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*>> >> >> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:21:56 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*>> >> >> >> GG: C8 Selected module I at 14 volts at NOCT 2.94A*

*>>*

*>> >> >> >14 volts is the test standard at 25C. 17 volts is what the produces*

*>> >> >> >when not connected to a load. Surprised you don't know this.*

*>>*

*>> >> >> No, I was not aware of a test standard that specified a particular*

*
voltage*
*>> >> >> for the PV cell.*

*>>*

*>> >> >> What standard is that?*

*>>*

*>> >> >> The standards I've seen with regard to PV panels are STC and PTC.*

*>>*

*>> >> >> But they both refer to wattage ratings under specified conditions of*

*>> >> >> irradiance, temperature and, for the PTC standard, wind speed. Neither*

*
one*
*>> >> >> mentions a particular voltage.*

*>>*

*>> >> >> NOCT is not mentioned in either of those standards, and the irradiance*

*
used*
*>> >> >> to determine NOCT is not the same as that used in either STC or PTC*

*>> >> >> standards.*

*>> >> >> --ron*

*>>*

*>> >> >Sad.*

*>>*

*>> >> It is truly sad that reality does not match George's fantasy.*

*>> >> --ron*

*>>*

*>> >We're still waiting on your all inclusive spread sheet that allows for*

*>> >all the solar equipment in the world and complete pricing for same.*

*>>*

*>> I'm sure *YOU* would require something like that, so you can blame any of*

*>> your misguided recommendations on whoever devised the database. But a real*

*>> solar power consultant would not.*

*>You are the one that suggested that such a SS would be a good thing.*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>*

*>> >We are also waiting for yor caluclation for the numbers you proposed*

*>> >for this post;*

*>>*

*>> And I'm waiting to see if you agree with any of them. Clearly, you cannot*

*>> recommend an efficient real-world system.*

*>The numbers you provided add up to 11 panels.*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>*

*>>*

*>> >From Tweedledee -*

*>>*

*>> >Let's get back to this challenge of yours, as to whether your*

*>> >specifications will run the OP's 2500watt pump 1/2 hour per day, every*

*>> >day.*

*>>*

*>> >You give incomplete specifications, so it's a tough to run a*

*>> >simulation.*

*>> >But perhaps, if you can fill in a few details, or agree with some of*

*>> >my*

*>> >assumptions, we can proceed with a simulation:*

*>>*

*>> >With regard to your selected module:*

*>>*

*>> >>C8 Selected module I at 14 volts at NOCT 2.94A*

*>>*

*>> >Does this mean it has an STC nameplate power rating of 14*2.94 = 41.16*

*>> >watts? Or is the STC nameplate power rating something else?*

*>>*

*>> >>C13 Number of parallel strings of modules (C5 / C12) = 10.3*

*>>*

*>> >I will round this up to 11.*

*>>*

*>> >Do you want to consider the effect of temperature on the module?*

*>>*

*>> >If you do, then we need to use some assumptions about the temperature*

*>> >coefficient, NOCT and MPPT efficiency at std. test conditions.*

*>>*

*>> >I would assume*

*>> > Temperature coefficient of power = -0.5%/°C*

*>> > NOCT 45.2°C*

*>> > MPPT Efficiency at std test cond 13%*

*>>*

*>> >but we can use different values if you like, or ignore temperature*

*>> >affects*

*>> >completely.*

*>>*

*>> >With regard to the battery, you have supplied this information:*

*>>*

*>> >>B2 Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%*

*>> >>B13 Capacity of battery bank at 100 hr rate (B12 x B10) = 225*

*>> >>C4 Battery efficiency = 90%*

*>>*

*>> >The real world battery I could find (in my database) closest to these*

*>> >specifications:*

*>>*

*>> >Trojan T105*

*>> > Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%*

*>> > Capacity at 100 hr rate = 240*

*>> > Efficiency 85%*

*>>*

*>> >So I would use two of these in series to provide a 12V battery bank.*

*>>*

*>> >Well, come on you have the formula, these are the numbers you feel*

*>> >should be used, show us the calculation.*

*>>*

*>> I was trying to help you formulate a real world system to run through the*

*>> simulation. Clearly, that is beyond your ability. Sad. Especially for*

*>> one who claims to be knowledgeable in this field.*

*>Can't do it can you*

*>>*

*>> In another post, GG writes about me: "He has learned more about solar*

*>> in the last two weeks than he ever learned in the last 10 years."*

*>>*

*>> What I've learned in the last two weeks is that GG is even less competent,*

*>> and less able to learn, than I had originally concluded. That shouldn't be*

*>> a surprise, I know. But I did have hopes.*

*>Wow!*

*>>*

*>> He can't specify either a real world panel or a real world battery for his*

*>> Kilauea water pump system. He can only come up with unrealistic*

*>> specifications, and, when real world specifications are proposed to him, he*

*>> can neither accept them, nor propose different ones.*

*>180 Ah is true and correct minimum capacity for the job.*

*>>*

*>> And then, to compound his errors, he writes:*

*>>*

*>> >This is your best guess is it? From the standard test temp of 25C my*

*>> >checking shows that at 45C:*

*>> >1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current*

*>>*

*>> >2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage*

*>>*

*>> >3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.*

*>>*

*>> If his 45C is an ambient temperature, he's someplace far from Kilauea, HI*

*>> where the highest annual temp is around 33C, and the average annual temp is*

*>> about 29C.*

*>The 45.2C was your number. The results I have shown are correct.*

*>>*

*>> If he's trying to compare what happens at STC (which is at 25C), when we*

*>> change the conditions so that the operating cell temperature (OCT) is the*

*>> NOCT, then he doesn't know what NOCT is or how to calculate it.*

*> From the standard test temp of 25C my*

*>> >checking shows that at 45C:*

*>> >1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current*

*>>*

*>> >2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage*

*>>*

*>> >3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.*

*>STC is the standard. The numbers given are what you get when you raist*

*>the OCT to 45C.*

*>Care to prove it wrong. But no, you can't. Sill of me to ask.*

*>>*

*>> Hint for GG: The OCT at STC will be higher than the NOCT.*

*>> --ron*

If you are just comparing the output of the panel with a cell temperature

of 25C vs a cell temperature of 45C, then you are correct in your

assumption that the output will be less.

But you still remain unable to provide any real world materials for your

system.

And we're still waiting to hear where you got your 14Volt specification

from.

Since you falsely claim that 11 panels was my recommendation, let's be

clear that I was rounding up YOUR conclusion that 10.3 panels would be

enough. So I'll withdraw my 11 panel interpretation of your 10.3 panel

conclusion and wait for you to provide a panel that can be purchased at the

10.3 panel size.

Obviously you don't recall that my only recommendation was for 10 panels of

the type the OP had available, whereas *your* recommendations have been:

GG: (1st try) 154 panels

GG: (2nd try) 17- 50W Panels

GG: (3rd try) (C5 / C12) = 10.3

You can also tell us who makes a battery that meets *your* specifications

of:

B2 Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%

B13 Capacity of battery bank at 100 hr rate (B12 x B10) = 180

C4 Battery efficiency = 90%

and will also work in the proposed application. So far you haven't even

come close.

--ron

Posted by *bealiba* on July 16, 2008, 7:58 am

*> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:28:59 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*> >> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:46:05 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*> >> >> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:02:23 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*> >> >> >> On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:21:56 -0700 (PDT), beal...@gmail.com wrote:*

*> >> >> >> >> GG: C8 Selected module I at 14 volts at NOCT 2.94A*

*> >> >> >> >14 volts is the test standard at 25C. 17 volts is what the produces*

*> >> >> >> >when not connected to a load. Surprised you don't know this.*

*> >> >> >> No, I was not aware of a test standard that specified a particular voltage*

*> >> >> >> for the PV cell.*

*> >> >> >> What standard is that?*

*> >> >> >> The standards I've seen with regard to PV panels are STC and PTC.*

*> >> >> >> But they both refer to wattage ratings under specified conditions of*

*> >> >> >> irradiance, temperature and, for the PTC standard, wind speed. Neither one*

*> >> >> >> mentions a particular voltage.*

*> >> >> >> NOCT is not mentioned in either of those standards, and the irradiance used*

*> >> >> >> to determine NOCT is not the same as that used in either STC or PTC*

*> >> >> >> standards.*

*> >> >> >> --ron*

*> >> >> >Sad.*

*> >> >> It is truly sad that reality does not match George's fantasy.*

*> >> >> --ron*

*> >> >We're still waiting on your all inclusive spread sheet that allows for*

*> >> >all the solar equipment in the world and complete pricing for same.*

*> >> I'm sure *YOU* would require something like that, so you can blame any of*

*> >> your misguided recommendations on whoever devised the database. But a real*

*> >> solar power consultant would not.*

*> >You are the one that suggested that such a SS would be a good thing.*

*> >> >We are also waiting for yor caluclation for the numbers you proposed*

*> >> >for this post;*

*> >> And I'm waiting to see if you agree with any of them. Clearly, you cannot*

*> >> recommend an efficient real-world system.*

*> >The numbers you provided add up to 11 panels.*

*> >> >From Tweedledee -*

*> >> >Let's get back to this challenge of yours, as to whether your*

*> >> >specifications will run the OP's 2500watt pump 1/2 hour per day, every*

*> >> >day.*

*> >> >You give incomplete specifications, so it's a tough to run a*

*> >> >simulation.*

*> >> >But perhaps, if you can fill in a few details, or agree with some of*

*> >> >my*

*> >> >assumptions, we can proceed with a simulation:*

*> >> >With regard to your selected module:*

*> >> >>C8 Selected module I at 14 volts at NOCT 2.94A*

*> >> >Does this mean it has an STC nameplate power rating of 14*2.94 = 41.16*

*> >> >watts? Or is the STC nameplate power rating something else?*

*> >> >>C13 Number of parallel strings of modules (C5 / C12) = 10.3*

*> >> >I will round this up to 11.*

*> >> >Do you want to consider the effect of temperature on the module?*

*> >> >If you do, then we need to use some assumptions about the temperature*

*> >> >coefficient, NOCT and MPPT efficiency at std. test conditions.*

*> >> >I would assume*

*> >> > Temperature coefficient of power = -0.5%/C*

*> >> > NOCT 45.2C*

*> >> > MPPT Efficiency at std test cond 13%*

*> >> >but we can use different values if you like, or ignore temperature*

*> >> >affects*

*> >> >completely.*

*> >> >With regard to the battery, you have supplied this information:*

*> >> >>B2 Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%*

*> >> >>B13 Capacity of battery bank at 100 hr rate (B12 x B10) = 225*

*> >> >>C4 Battery efficiency = 90%*

*> >> >The real world battery I could find (in my database) closest to these*

*> >> >specifications:*

*> >> >Trojan T105*

*> >> > Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%*

*> >> > Capacity at 100 hr rate = 240*

*> >> > Efficiency 85%*

*> >> >So I would use two of these in series to provide a 12V battery bank.*

*> >> >Well, come on you have the formula, these are the numbers you feel*

*> >> >should be used, show us the calculation.*

*> >> I was trying to help you formulate a real world system to run through the*

*> >> simulation. Clearly, that is beyond your ability. Sad. Especially for*

*> >> one who claims to be knowledgeable in this field.*

*> >Can't do it can you*

*> >> In another post, GG writes about me: "He has learned more about solar*

*> >> in the last two weeks than he ever learned in the last 10 years."*

*> >> What I've learned in the last two weeks is that GG is even less competent,*

*> >> and less able to learn, than I had originally concluded. That shouldn't be*

*> >> a surprise, I know. But I did have hopes.*

*> >Wow!*

*> >> He can't specify either a real world panel or a real world battery for his*

*> >> Kilauea water pump system. He can only come up with unrealistic*

*> >> specifications, and, when real world specifications are proposed to him, he*

*> >> can neither accept them, nor propose different ones.*

*> >180 Ah is true and correct minimum capacity for the job.*

*> >> And then, to compound his errors, he writes:*

*> >> >This is your best guess is it? From the standard test temp of 25C my*

*> >> >checking shows that at 45C:*

*> >> >1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current*

*> >> >2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage*

*> >> >3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.*

*> >> If his 45C is an ambient temperature, he's someplace far from Kilauea, HI*

*> >> where the highest annual temp is around 33C, and the average annual temp is*

*> >> about 29C.*

*> >The 45.2C was your number. The results I have shown are correct.*

*> >> If he's trying to compare what happens at STC (which is at 25C), when we*

*> >> change the conditions so that the operating cell temperature (OCT) is the*

*> >> NOCT, then he doesn't know what NOCT is or how to calculate it.*

*> > From the standard test temp of 25C my*

*> >> >checking shows that at 45C:*

*> >> >1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current*

*> >> >2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage*

*> >> >3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.*

*> >STC is the standard. The numbers given are what you get when you raist*

*> >the OCT to 45C.*

*> >Care to prove it wrong. But no, you can't. Sill of me to ask.*

*> >> Hint for GG: The OCT at STC will be higher than the NOCT.*

*> >> --ron*

*> If you are just comparing the output of the panel with a cell temperature*

*> of 25C vs a cell temperature of 45C, then you are correct in your*

*> assumption that the output will be less.*

*> But you still remain unable to provide any real world materials for your*

*> system.*

*> And we're still waiting to hear where you got your 14Volt specification*

*> from.*

*> Since you falsely claim that 11 panels was my recommendation, let's be*

*> clear that I was rounding up YOUR conclusion that 10.3 panels would be*

*> enough. So I'll withdraw my 11 panel interpretation of your 10.3 panel*

*> conclusion and wait for you to provide a panel that can be purchased at the*

*> 10.3 panel size.*

No, I said 11 panels. 10.3 rounded up

*> Obviously you don't recall that my only recommendation was for 10 panels of*

*> the type the OP had available, whereas *your* recommendations have been:*

Thats right and I said 10.3 Rounded up to 11

*> GG: (1st try) 154 panels*

*> GG: (2nd try) 17- 50W Panels*

*> GG: (3rd try) (C5 / C12) = 10.3*

*> You can also tell us who makes a battery that meets *your* specifications*

*> of:*

*> B2 Maximum allowable depth of discharge = 70%*

Almost all deep cycle batteries. Most will in fact handle as much as

80% maximum DOD. Maximum DOD is a fairly rare occurrence in a properly

designed system.

*> B13 Capacity of battery bank at 100 hr rate (B12 x B10) = 180*

180 is the minimum battery capacity required. I never recommended a

battery. You recommended T105s.

*> C4 Battery efficiency = 90%*

Hey, it works.

*> and will also work in the proposed application. So far you haven't even*

*> come close.*

I never recommended a battery for the application. You recommended

T205s.

*> --ron*

> He seems smart enough to invoke many responses from the so-called> "brainchilds" here. Where does that put you?> Maybe a little maturity would help you out?> > I was trying to help you formulate a real world system to run through the> > simulation. Clearly, that is beyond your ability. Sad. Especially for> > one who claims to be knowledgeable in this field.> > In another post, GG writes about me: "He has learned more about solar> > in the last two weeks than he ever learned in the last 10 years."> > What I've learned in the last two weeks is that GG is even less competent,> > and less able to learn, than I had originally concluded. That shouldn't> > be> > a surprise, I know. But I did have hopes.> > He can't specify either a real world panel or a real world battery for his> > Kilauea water pump system. He can only come up with unrealistic> > specifications, and, when real world specifications are proposed to him,> > he> > can neither accept them, nor propose different ones.> > And then, to compound his errors, he writes:> >>This is your best guess is it? From the standard test temp of 25C my> >>checking shows that at 45C:> >>1) there is an increase of around 1%in the short circuit current> >>2) A decrease of around 8.5% in the open circuit voltage> >>3) A decrease of around 6% in the maximum power.> > If his 45C is an ambient temperature, he's someplace far from Kilauea, HI> > where the highest annual temp is around 33C, and the average annual temp> > is> > about 29C.> > If he's trying to compare what happens at STC (which is at 25C), when we> > change the conditions so that the operating cell temperature (OCT) is the> > NOCT, then he doesn't know what NOCT is or how to calculate it.> > Hint for GG: The OCT at STC will be higher than the NOCT.> > --ron