Re: Many funky inventors went online and on magazine to promote their dreams....

 

Re: Many funky inventors went online and on magazine to promote their
dreams....  Just because you got some patents it doesn't mean you got the
right answer.

#1 SOLAR panels are not cheap,

#2 You cannot use light power(solar cells) to extract hydrogen, a powerful
hydrogenerator
is not even suffficient for that job.  Forget splitting water! It will NEVER
work dummies.

  On Jan 18, 4:34 pm, "theloneranger...@aol.com"

What does this have to do with February's issue of Popular Science and
a hydrogen powered jet?


Means I can stop other people from making stuff for a period of time.


???  This wasn't a quiz dude.  So, what does that even mean ???


Well, first run float silicon costs about $1 per square inch.  That's
$1,550 per square meter.  Now the sun at peak intensity illuminates a
square meter of material on a clear day with about 1,000 watts of
light. Silicon solar panels are about 22% efficient at converting that
light to electricity, under ideal conditions.  So, this is a peak
output (Wp) of 220 watts for $1,550 or $7.00 per peak watt.

This can be dropped in price to about $4 per peak watt by using
seconds - buying substandard silicon from the consumer electronics
folks at a discount - but this limits the total amount of panels.
So,you're back at the earlier price with larger volumes.

Now,each watt of peak panel capacity in a sunny location generates
about 1.7 kWh per year.   And that $7 per watt has an annual cost of
capital, even with no other costs, of about $0.65 per year - assuming
a 20 year life span and an 8.5% discount rate. This translates to
$0.38 per kWh.

It takes 50 kWh to produce a kg of hydrogen using DC electricity in a
well matched electrolyzer from water.  So, that's $19 per kg - or
$19,000 per metric ton.

So, CONVENTIONAL SOLAR PANELS ARE NOT CHEAP.

Now, I can operate cells continuously at over 2,000x solar intensity
using multi-junction dies I've built and patented. So, using the same
float silicon this reduces the cost from $7 per peak watt to 1/3 cents
per peak watt for the same silicon producing the same power..

Now you've got to focus the light to a tiny spot to do that - which
means you've got those costs of optics and lenses, then there's
interconnection costs and all of that too.  Adding all those costs up
for my multiple lens array, using water-filled lenses, including
alkaline electrolyzers that very their load based on lighting
conditions, costs rise to $0.07 per peak watt - 1% the typical costs
of solar panels - which means I can produce hydrogen for $200 per
metric ton - and when delivery costs are added in $270 per metric
ton.


http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/h2homesystem.pdf
http://www.cedarcreekinstitute.org/pdf/curriculum/solar-energy/3b-hydrolysis=
.pdf
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17887/
http://www.scied.science.doe.gov/nmsb/hydrogen/Electrolysis.pdf


Please review the documents I provided above. These are experiments
for high school students.  You will find that water is easily
decomposed with the right equipment.

Water is easily decomposed by any voltage source that's greater than
1.5 volts.  A 9 volt battery, a solar panel you get from Radio Shack -
my panels..

The issue is the efficiency and the cost.  The efficiency can be
rather high.  65% to 80% or more - at low currents and low voltages.
As I said, ideally matched it takes about 50 kilowatt-hours of low
voltage electrical energy to produce a kilogram of hydrogen from 9
kilograms of water.

The issue is cost.  Electricity at $0.10 per kWh means that a ton of
hydrogen gas costs $5,000 made this way.  Typical solar panel
electricity costs $0.40 per kWh - so the cost is more like $20,000 per
metric ton.

As I mentioned, my costs are 1/100th that of conventional solar
panels, so that's $200 per metric ton.  When you count delivery costs
and so forth the costs are $270 per metric ton.  The selling price is
$800 per metric ton, which is a great value, especially when
considering there is no carbon dioxide produced in making this sort of
fuel from water and sunlight.

Since a ton of hydrogen gas is equal to;

     6.2 tons of coal - $800 per ton selling price = $129 per ton of
coal
     2.55 tons of natural gas - $800 selling price = $320 per ton of
NG
     23 barrels of crude oil - $800 selling price = $35 per barrel
crude

Since a ton of coal produces about 3.2 tons of natural gas, burning a
ton of hydrogen instead of 6.2 tons of coal avoides the emission of
19.8 tons of carbon dioxide.  At $20 for each ton of avoided carbon
that's $396 per ton of hydrogen - which means that the coal alone
costs only $65 per ton.

 

You lost your focus Mr. Mook, you need to put yourself in the user's view,
not in the seller's view.  Don't compare your solar to the inefficient water
splitting.  The users are not doing the water splitting.  They are using
Nuclear energy passing through the power company, that is by FAR SO HUGE
benefit,.

Don't try to make your panel look cheap by the square meter etc., it is NOT
cheap period, LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE MAN!!  and Think of the negative side
of Solar Panels, the wind can destroy them, the DUST can stop the energy
efficiency by blocking the sun light.  PLUS if one cell went broken, it can
stop the flow of a section or the entire system depending on how you wired
the Solar Panels.



Well I am not going to talk about your out-of-focus reasons....  Have a good
day pops...

 
I guess that you have never heard of bypass diodes. My Sharp ND-200UF panels
have internal bypass diodes in case of localized shade, or even if a "cell
went broken". So, even if a panel went open, current from the remaining
panels in the series string would still be able to flow.

Phil

 

I heard about it and my answer is already included.  The point is, bypassing
the bad section or not "you still will lose power of a section that is
damaged."  I always look at the big picture.